(SIDENOTE: As you read this, I’ve received a number of messages from people that think I’m crazy for suggesting this workflow, even though many of you have told me over the years you use it. So… I’d love to hear from you in the comments if you are already a Bridge / Camera Raw user. Why did you go that route?)
Hi everyone. There’s something I’ve noticed over the years.
Photographers can get very attached to the idea that there’s one “right” way to work. That we should organize photos a certain way, and edit them in a certain order, all the way down to folder names and that we absolutely need to use one program or the other.
I understand it. A formula is easy to follow right? It’s comforting to think there is a set of rules around photography and photo editing because we follow rules. Do this… do that… and your photo will be good.
But I don’t believe that, and I never have.
I think the best workflow is the one that makes sense to you and gets out of your way.
For some photographers, Lightroom Classic is a great fit. They like having everything in one place. They like the organization, and the catalog, and the keywords, and metadata and the other modules like Slideshow, maps, etc.
And for other people, it just never clicks. Some would rather keep their photos in normal folders on their computer, open those folders, see what’s there, pick a photo, and start editing.
There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m kind of in the middle.
I used Lightroom Classic for many years. As soon as Lightroom Desktop came out with the local section, I switched immediately and that is what I use for most of my photography now. But I also use Bridge and Camera Raw often for various projects. And that’s really what got me thinking and why I created my Skip Lightroom – Bridge and Camera Raw course. I realized I should have made it 10 years ago because a lot of people like this workflow better.
If you have Photoshop, you already have access to Adobe Bridge and Camera Raw.
Bridge gives you a really simple way to browse and organize the folders you already use.
Camera Raw gives you the world’s best editing tools most photographers need, which also happen to be the same in Lightroom Classic. And of course Photoshop is there if you need to go further (which is less and less these days). It’s a very straightforward workflow.
Folders → Bridge → Camera Raw → Photoshop when needed
That may not be the best workflow for everyone. But for some photographers, it may be exactly the workflow they’ve been looking for. That’s why I made Skip Lightroom: Bridge and Camera Raw Workflow. Not because Lightroom is bad, but because people have told me they don’t want to use it and it doesn’t feel natural for them.
So if you’ve ever thought, “I just a simple way to view my photos and edit them,” this might be a much better fit.
Click here to find out more about the new Bridge / Camera Raw Course.
As I wrote earlier, I’m a little surprised at some of the messages I’ve received that people think I’m crazy for doing a course like this, considering I’ve taught Lightroom for 20 years. I’m curious to hear from any existing Bridge / Camera Raw users on why you like it, just so I know I’m not crazy 😉
I love teaching and photography... In that order. I feel that enjoying photography, and photo editing can get WAY too complicated. So my personal mission (and favorite thing to do), is to create education that simplifies the process of taking great photos, and how to edit them to get the results you’ve always wanted.
I grew up in the days of command line interfaces. I used Photoshop before Lightroom was invented. I’m comfortable with simpler and less capable tech. I don’t use any social media or any other external things that link to Lightroom. I don’t do any mobile computing for which LR is well adapted. I take a few thousand photos a year of which I retain about 300. My entire lifetime of photos is maybe 30k. I don’t need any sophisticated database for handling that many photos. I tried key words but found them more hassle than value. So I don’t even use key words. I manage my own folders. I do initial edits in ACR and final edits in Photoshop. (there are always final edits because Photoshop can do thing LR and ACR cannot do). Further, I know way too many people who have lost photos in their LR system. Never to see them again. I like to think I’m smarter than them. But who knows? Why take the risk.
Hi Keith. I only write this so others that may read it realize there is a lot of incorrect information here. However, you are welcome to your thoughts about LR and PS and your workflow, and I respect that it works for you. Thanks.
This is me working exclusively in Photoshop and occasionally using Lightroom for the sideshow module. I have tried using LR as a starter point for editing, but it just never clicked and I had trouble using the organization for folders. So I have stuck with PS entirely using camera raw when needed, I use my iPhone more and more and shoot always in raw so PS seems like a natural fit. I have my own system for folders and it works perfectly; changing over to LR for organization is simply cumbersome. Your new course sounds interesting!
Totally agree. Bridge has always been my go to system since I started with Adobe CS6. The recent video has been great, tips I didn’t know. I do still use LR Classic if I have a bunch of photos to sort out or use similar adjustments but will probably never be my first go to program. Love the ‘load file into Photoshop layers’ feature… Use raw on most photos. Sadly I listened to the debate about not really needing to shoot in CameraRaw and stared just shooting in jpeg for several year and even deleted some of my old Raw files. Such a difference. In the 80 age bracket & still learning. =) !
I feel so stupid. I have used Bridge forever to access my libraries – daily. It’s all I’ve ever used and I love it.
I use Lightroom as the first step in my editing process. I don’t use it for cataloging, I just use it for the editor. Which is identical to Camera Raw. After number of years in the business I realize I could have skipped the LR part all along. DOH!
I’m going to get the course because I *always* pick up a few tips and tricks from you, Matt! But sheesh – thank you for this huge lightbulb moment!
I’m so relieved to see this! I’ve been using this system since I started using Photoshop 20 years ago. I’ve “peeked” at Lightroom several times but just didn’t see much difference in final outcome, or rather, it didn’t seem worth the trouble to learn a new system when the current system is working so well for me. Thanks for putting a lid on the never ending doubt that I could be doing photo editing better if only I switched to Lightroom.
I have been using Photoshop for 25 years and many years bridge and camera raw. Will forward information about your course to my friends who are “lost” bunI doubt they will learn.
I like LightRoom Classic. Because of age (almost 80) and declining mental attributes (mind like a sponge – info in and drips out to the nether region almost as fast), I’ll just stick to LRC.
Appreciate the articles, BTW.
I use Lightroom Classic and Bridge, and use Camera Raw. These are easy for me.
Once done with an image in LR Classic, I may go further in Photoshop. I have an old desktop Apple 27-inch computer; the most up to date Photoshop I can use is PS 2024 which set up as folder & easily opened when I need it. I needed help from Adobe Support since Adobe somehow went ballistic in my applications and trashed all PS, leaving only a bunch of LUTs. I have no idea how adobe got into my computer.
I have my computer and Canon Pro-1100 linked directly through LR Classic to Canon ‘Professional Print & Layout’. Works very well, even after a few power outages. Any more fiddling will require help from Canon.
I love Lightroom Classic. I’ve been using it for years and use it for ALL of my photography. And I shoot a lot of photos.
I just took a quick look at my RAW file and it is holding 62 folders with a total of 2,509 images.
I tried Lightroom when it first came out but just could not get used to the new user interface. I’ve been using classic for nearly 20 years now and know exactly what to click on to get the results I want. Yes, there are always new features, but Matt does a great job of keeping us up to date. I’m sticking with Classic. The new stuff, as Matt would say is Bridge is “not for me.:
I use LRC, with occasional PS. Based on this discussion, I took a quick look back at using Bridge + ACR, but I find it cumbersome to switch between the two programs. In LRC everything is in the same app, I can seamlessly go between photo viewer and editing with a single keystroke, I do this fairly often. I can merge multiple images into a panorama (when the scene exceeds my wide-angle lens, or multiple exposures for HDR) right inside LRC. Also I find that LRC has more features than Bridge. For example editing has a history panel, sometimes I have trouble getting something right and it’s nice to go back a whole bunch of edits in one click, or compare them by just hovering over them. About the LRC catalog and having to import the images, I am not really fond of this, once in a while it gives issues, but overall I find it a minor inconvenience. I always create sidecar files in case the catalog gets corrupted. The new LR is no-go for me because it cannot treat matching Raw files and JPG as a single image. I shoot RAW + JPG, with the JPGs at lower resolution because it makes it easier to share photos when traveling.
I noticed comments about sharing photos with family – I ran into this already many years ago. To me it’s not just a matter of dealing with a catalog, it’s also a matter of dealing with RAW files vs JPG. I shoot RAW, but my wife does not want to have anything to do with that and is not interested in using/learning Bridge. She uses a different photo editing program. I have made it a habit to export a completed set of edited photos from LRC to JPG’s in a separate folder on my PC that I share with my family. I do use Bridge when I am in the reverse situation, i.e. wanting to browse photos on my wife’s laptop via a shared folder there.
Hi Matt–Since adopting Photoshop years ago I’ve never used any form of Lightroom. I used other non-Adobe image cataloging programs long before Lightroom was ever developed, and suffered oodles of problems with them. Consequently, I manage my images in simple folders, browse, input, and output them with Bridge, and then go directly to Camera Raw from Bridge for editing. Most of my edits are readily performed in Camera Raw, the problematic images go to Photoshop.
I’ve been pleased with the periodic improvements to Bridge that Adobe has made through the years. They improve my workflow.
I’m NOT pleased that my subscription with Adobe doesn’t permit me to subscribe just to Photoshop and Bridge and NOT also pay for Lightroom. Those like me who don’t ever Lightroom shouldn’t be required to pay for it. I’ve mentioned this many, many times in Adobe’s periodic surveys of their users. There should be the option to subscribe just to Photoshop and Bridge at a discounted price. But I’m not holding my breath that this will ever happen.
Hi. I’m not sure where you’re looking but I just went to Adobe’s website and saw a Photoshop only plan front and center.
I use both, for my normal photo project I use Lightroom Classic since Version 2.0.
But for smaller projects where I need to edit just a couple of photos I am using Bridge, CameraRaw and PS, because I don’t want to import these photos into Lightroom Classic, because I just need some quick edits and that’s it, not worth the hassle importing these photos.
So that makes absolutely sense for me.
Thanks Matt
Yes! That’s my workflow. Camera Raw and Photoshop. I don’t want or need a database. I want total control!
I am not a fan of the Lightroom import/export process and therefore have used bridge as my raw file viewer followed by ACR or DXO pro for the conversion process. Other than some filters and presets that aren’t available for anything but Lightroom, this process has worked well. It’s a shame Adobe bought Sharpshooter Pro and made it into Lightroom as I loved that program along with Downloader Pro which unfortunately is not available for Mac.
Hi Matt. I want to tell you why I purchased this course. Yes, I am a long-time Lightroom Classic user, probably from the first time it was produced. I have a lot of years invested in it. I am 88 years old, Matt. Definitely in the twilight years. I think all the time about how I am going to leave my photos to my children. My children are really not photo-savvy, Lightroom-savvy, Photoshop-savvy people. I worry all the time about how they would get to the photos in Lightroom Classic and have to learn how to use the program. If they really wanted to keep some of the photos, then they would have to export them out of Lightroom and create a files. I’m not sure they want to deal with it. Using Adobe Bridge with Photoshop and camera raw, which I can handle very easily, allow me to keep the photos in the original folders and make it easy for my children to just click on them and decide if they want to keep them. They could use a lot of different programs if they got interested in looking at those photos in those folders and deciding which ones they would like to have and keep. I would say that a fair share of my photos, even in Lightroom, are family-oriented and take very little effort to edit. If I used Bridge with Camera Raw and occasionally use Photoshop itself for a little more intricate work, it would be pretty much straightforward. I bought your program to play with, to see if this is a good way for me to handle things going forward. I would like your feedback if it’s possible. There are lots of people in my age situation where you start thinking about how you’re going to pass on the photos. I am not sure that Lightroom Classic is the best vehicle for keeping family keepsakes going forward. I think my children are fairly savvy using an iPhone, like most kids, and really don’t want to get involved with higher sophistication, if I can use that term. I am going to spend a little time with your new program to see if it fits my workflow better. Really, I thank you for coming up with this workflow.
Hi Matt,
As a 68 year old photographer who has been actively shooting every day since the late 1980’s, I naturally learned my computing skills back in the day when folder hierarchies were simply the way things were organized. Starting to use Photoshop before Scott Kelby even started NAPP, I learned early Photoshop techniques on purchased VHS tapes! So for me, my only purpose for using Lightroom is as a DAM digital asset management program. I find the ability to classify and link images in multiple collections to be so much more beneficial to me than cumbersome keyword protocols. I’m primarily a landscape photographer, with thousands of macro floral pictures, and the collection system allows me to put the same image in as many albums as I want when multiple factors would be applicable, e.g. light painting, type of bloom, location, etc. Since I’m comfortable having used this system of importing everything into Bridge folders, I see no reason to change. I got into the habit tears ago of converting everything to .dng files, so there are no sidecar files to drag along. I guess if the .dng is an Adobe file format, I figure it’ll be readable down the line. I know, slightly bigger file, but I think it’s worth it.
I truly enjoy your tutorials and the courses that I have purchased from you. You have an open minded pragmatic approach to image editing that strikes me as being in sympathy with my own inclinations.
You are not crazy. Adobe Bridge gives me a trouble free way to organise and browse my folders. I have use Bridge since 1996 and for the life of me, I cannot understand Lightroom, it baffles me. Whereas Bridge is so simple to use and its from there I use Photoshop to edit all my photos.
I usually do the Bridge > Camera Raw > Photoshop route.
This is just my opinion.
Hi Matt, I only use Bridge and Camera Raw and PS. You have to use PS to print, correct?
As one with an information management background (BA is Computer Science), the Bridge–>ACR–>Photoshop workflow makes perfect sense, and this is the workflow I used when I started in digital photography. Although I now rely on Lightroom Classic (the catalog is not a challenge for nerds like me), that’s mostly because LrC does many things that formerly required Ps.
Just love all the tutorials and emails; keep ’em coming!
Hi, Matt:
Over many years, I’ve tried to work with Lr three times but I gave up. I just don’t like Catalogs. So for several years I’ve used Bridge and ACR and I can then use any software I like, because Ps isn’t always right for me.
The ability to view my files on my drive(s) is a huge benefit.
Hi, Matt.
This may be something that I would be interested in. I started out in sports photography and became very comfortable using Camera Bits Photo Mechanic for sorting and rating my photographs. As I got older, I started shooting wildlife and landscapes, but still used Photo Mechanic for reviewing and culling my photographs. I’ve been doing that ever since I retired and I always use Photoshop camera raw for editing my photos. I have no experience using bridge, but maybe I need to look into this.
Hi Ernie. Same thing as PM. PM is meant for people that need hardcore metadata templates, etc… (sports photographers love it). Bridge works similar, so you won’t find a ton of differences and my guess is if you’re a long term PM user, breaking that is going to be hard and I’m not sure worth it for you. But it’s a free app, so give it a whirl. Thanks.
Thanks, Matt. I’ll give Bridge another closer look.
Ernie
I do not use any Adobe products. I use Luminar. Any way to discuss how to use editing tools without being program specific ?
e.g. hue, saturation, luminance (all programs have those features) means this happens. How not to over process a picture.
Hi Alex. You’re welcome to watch any of my videos and see if the editing parts help you. I’m going to make them Adobe specific, but as you wrote, Hue is hue, saturation is saturation right? Though I’d argue Luminar won’t even come close to having the quality of adjustments that Adobe does for your raw photos. Thanks.
I use camera raw because that is what someone taught me to use. I have not used Bridge as I was never introduced to it.
I’m a casual/hobbiest type of photography and was never introduced to Bridge in all my Editing courses. Had no idea what it can do for me. I watched your introduction and I will give it a try. I like the simplicity.
If I were sitting in your chair, looking through your eyes. My goal and responsibility would be to offer insight and instruction that meets the needs of my clients and the marketplace. The role is certainly not to tell your clients what they can or cannot do, personal preferences have to be respected and carefully weighed before investing time and effort in a new training product. Best of luck. Speaking for myself, I have been a Lr user since its inception, I am an amateur photographer not a graphic artist. Since the introduction of the Adobe subscription model I have and continue to use Ps on occasion to perform tasks which I cannot accomplish in Lr and these tasks continue to diminish. However, I will always have a need to focus stack, blend etc. Until Lr can perform those tasks I will use Ps. Keep up the good work.
It’s an interesting thought. Because when I take golf lessons for example, I want my coach to tell me “Yes, I realize you saw a youtube video that told you to do that, but that is incorrect and not something I would advise you do. It may work for that person, but it’s not the best way to accomplish the golf swing”. I want some one’s opinion. That’s why I’m paying him. I’m not paying him to tell me all of the ways “I could” swing the golf club. So partly, I feel the same about photography education. I’d want some one to plainly tell me how it is and what is best in their opinion. If I don’t want their opinion, I won’t pay them. But if I’m paying you, I want your opinion plain and simple.
For example, I’ll give you mine or free. There is no reason to use Blend If in Photoshop. I’m not going to tell you the many various ways you can accomplish a task. But I can respect that you use it, and if you’re happy with it, that’s fine. As long as you know it would never be the best way to accomplish the task. Thanks.
I started using Photoshop long before there was Lightroom, and had already developed a solid workflow that worked for me. When LR came along, I gave it a good shot, didn’t like it at all, and went back to Bridge-ACR-Photoshop. From Photoshop, I can go to the multiple 3rd party plug-ins that I use, without ever having to “leave” Photoshop, giving me a seamless workflow for what I do. I no longer do photography as the majority of my work. I am now more focused on digital art – creating, painting and composite work, but I use a lot of my photography in the process, and the workflow I have developed still stands the test of time.
Honestly, people hate change. The thing that people first use and get comfortable with lock themselves in due to all the learning and familiarity. I started with Lightroom, then tried Photoshop, and honestly, it just worked well for me. I hung on for dear life to keep Lightroom as part of my process but eventually totally flipped to Photoshop. I think as hard as it is to leave home and try something different, I believe everyone should give both a go just to be fair to yourself. Some start with Photoshop and go to Lightroom. Either way, don’t cut yourself short; try both.
Hi Matt. Greetings all the way from Ballito on the upper, eastern seaboard of South Africa..
Iam a South African wildlife and surfing photographer, operating in the wilderness areas of sub-Saharan Africa, and the top coastal surfing beaches of SA.
I shot Canon very loyally, and with much success for 19 years. But in 2017, when Sony launched their A9Mki and mirrorless GM and G, after reading the specs, I just knew that if what the gurus and influencers were claiming was for real, mirrorless would dramatically change the modern, photographic world! Sony hadn’t returned to SA at that time, so I was forced to purchase an A9Mki and 70mm-200mm f2.8 +2xTC, because the Sony 100mm-400mm GM was not available for public consumption, from a dealer I know in Singapore.
I started with photographing surfing, and then wildlife, as we visited more wilderness destinations, and naturally I posted my work on social media.
SONY MEA (Middle East and Africa- Rajnish Kautia, their marketing manager at that time) reached out to me, as I was the very first wildlife and surfing photographer to use the Sony mirroless equipment in SA….. I did a fair amount of promotional work for them in SA, but refused the offer of free equipmewnt in return, as I needed to staunchly, maintain my independence, butSony and I became very close friends. I am deligheted to say that the very warm, and close relationship still continues today.
RE: LR Software: I started my editing using PS 6, and Elements, but when LR appeared I jumped on it, and have used it ever since.
I have never used their suggested workflow for storage, catalogs, and naming, as well as they Cloud storage! I currently have a 28 TB RAID System of back-up, and a separate array of hard drives totalling 28 TB. I prefer to use external hard drives, as I never want to get locked into any Cloud storage system, because I just feel that they will have me by the troat! I need my independence and freedom, and have never had a problem with my system. My archives are well over 500,500+ images. However, I emphasise that I can accurately find the images which I need, as I use a constant means of folder naming, which includes the date, Event, Destination etc, always in the exact same format.
IMHO: I use what I want to use, and what suits me personally, and disregard any “suggested” catalogging and storage, Cloud etc. In don’t believe there is only one solution for editing… There are a number of ways to achieve what I need and desire. I just choose what I feel the image needs.
I absolutely love the LR Masks, and their latest editions of Masks which drive my workflow. I use one brand of editing Plug-in software -TOPAZ De Noise AI, and TOPAZ Photo AI, which are the final tools after my main LR edits. After the TOPAZ finishing, I return to LR and do my final touch-ups of Textures and sharpening etc.
BTW; I was using two Sony A1MKii’s – One on my 600mm f4 GM +1.4xTC, and the other on my 100mm-400mm GM +1.4xTC…. I always shoot both rigs at my finger-tips so I can grab 140mm – 56m focus reach, and then for the long stuff – 840mm. As it’s Africa, I never, ever change lenses in the field…. *The 100mm-400 lens went back to the Tokyo factory in 2018 after being found to be “soft”, and which was a challenge for the factory manager at that time, and whom I met personally here in SA, when I had the privilege to guide, and drive him and three other senior engineers, from Sony Japan in a Big5 reserve north of where we live, in SA.
Thomas San told me that he had taken four random 100mm-400mm GM lenses off the production line, and checked their callibration tolerances, then he re-calibrated my lens, to much finer tolerances than the usual factory specification for Sony 100mm0400mm GM lenses! As he handed it back to me, he smiled, and told me that it was, the sharpest 100mm-400mm GM ever to come off their production line! I totally believe it, because 85% of my images since 2017 were all shot using that lens….I never touched their latest 100mm-400mm GM because it did nothing for me, and was heavier and larger than my original 100mm-400mm GM. My 100mm-400mm GM +1.4x TC is still razor sharp, and still sharpoer that their latest 100mm-400mm GM!
When the A7Rvi came out some months back, I immediately ordered one to use with this year’s O’Neill Ballito Pro International surfing competition. It arrived in my hands the day before the competition, and I used only that body for the entire competition, and I loved it! I then sent my second A1MKii to the dealership, whom I have used for over 20 years, for a credit.
A few weeks ago, when I saw Sony introduce their “new-age” 400mm f4.5 and 600 f6.3. I was particularly impressed by the internal design and construction.(BTW: Those two lenses by far improve on their Canon and NIKON equivalent, and a lot of their users will again defect to SONY becaue of Sony’s advances in engineering technology of new bodies and new-generation lenses! … My 600mm f4 was on it’s way to the dealerhip to trade in against a new generation 600mm f6.3 which I will continue to use with a 1.4xTC… I am predicting that those two lenses will be major game changers, and will have the same effect that the A9Mki and G and GM lenses had on world photography! Warm regards Tim Driman ( tim@driman.co.za)
https://timdrimanphotography.co.za/
I’ve been a Photoshop user for a long time. I tried to leverage Lightroom back in the version 1.x days. With tens of thousands of images, Lightroom’s database had importing issues. After a second attempt a few updates later, without success, I stuck with Photoshop and Bridge. Bridge allows me to use my operating system’s file structure. That works well for me.
So, no, Matt, you are not crazy. Bridge -> ACR -> Photoshop is my workflow as well. I’ve enjoyed how much Camera Raw has matured over the past couple years, so I spend more time in it than in Photoshop.
I am a fledging photographer
For me it’s Bridge – Lightroom Classic – Photoshop. I only use Camera Raw for one specific thing, which is sorting out the best images of a mass shoot of insects in flight, as I prefer the look of Lightroom and that it converts my images to .tif files.
Hi Matt, I only ever use Bridge & ACR – Photoshop and have been using Bridge & PS since the 1990’s when I followed you and Scott Kelby ( got a pile of books I must sort out someday )
I tried LR and have watched your video and attended courses here in the UK but wa never keen on the “Catalogue ” so stuck to what I know best and it seems to work for me.
Always hated lightroom, used Bridge/CameraRaw/PS for years and like it far better.
I am crazy just like you, I never use Lightroom
Just so we’re clear. I never said I don’t use Lightroom. I use Lightroom (not classic) for nearly all of my photography. But I recognize that Bridge/ACR does the same exact thing.
I started with Photoshop way back before Lightroom came along and was never tempted to switch to Lightroom. I went to PS for the layers to begin with. And I prefer arranging my files my own way, I like Bridge and Camera Raw gives me a good start before I go further into PS and the tie=ins there to On1 and Topaz depending on how much I want to play with my files. I hope you do well with your course . People may find that PS is not as intimidating as they thought and might want to play a little as well.
I’ve been doing photography for over 50 years starting developing and printing black and white while a teenager. And, even back then, I was very “organized”.maybe even rigid, about the way I did it. I produced contact sheets of every roll I developed and marked them by date and stored them with the negatives in a three ring binder. It should surprise no one that I became an engineer. Although I had a creative side to me, albeit not in photography, but in writing. I even won a scholarship to Brown for a story I wrote while in high school. I ended up with a B.S. in Engineering and a B.A. in Liberal Arts. I mention this because I straddle the line between following procedures rigidly in one instance and being a free-thinker in others and being able to understand those to whom rigid procedures are a strait-jacket to their creativity. I started doing digital photography in 2003 and adopted Lightroom as soon as it became available. I loved being able to organize my photos just the way I wanted using Lightroom. The thought of having them spread around in randomly named folders is an anathema to me. However, maybe the creative side of my photography suffers from this. I don’t know. However, I can easily understand the point of view of others to whom the way I do things is just too rigid and is needlessly formulaic. Photography is an unusual and, perhaps unique, creative discipline because there is so much “science” to it. We are capturing light and manipulating it which involves a lot of physics in order to produce an artistic output. So, it attracts and involves creative people who fall on both sides of this line: those like me who adopt a procedure through Lightroom Classic and those who are only focused on producing a pleasing output and will use whatever process they feel they want in the moment. Far be it fro me to judge how they do it. It really is only about the finished product, isn’t it? Its like criticizing a painter for what brushes they use or how they mix the paint on their palette. Those things are irrelevant to the ultimate end of the process.
Well said. Bridge organizes photos which has no effect on the visual appeal. ACR edits them the same as Lightroom, so no one looking at the final image would ever know. Thanks.
Hi Matt, I was a Lightroom Classic user for many years and was completely happy with that workflow.
However, as my computer, an iMac, aged I found going with “Bridge / ACR / Photoshop” was noticeably faster.
I have since updated to a fast MacMini setup but have continued using the Bridge ACR workflow as I have not felt any reason to return to Lr Classic.
As you described the process, in the intro to your new course yesterday, that is exactly how I work.
At the end of editing with ACR, I can save a copy back to the “processed folder” or proceed to Photoshop, if I need any additional processing.
I can always reopen the RAW file back into ACR, if I want to alter any edits.
Regards, John Taylor
For me it might be the “Old Dog,……..new tricks” thing. I used PS before Lightroom existed. When I first tried LR, I felt it wanted to highjack my memory card and put everything on my drive. I didn’t want work that way. Also I felt my initial views were soft and not sharp. I also saw posts of people struggling with catalogs after new hard drives, or getting a new computer. I started using layers/masks and kind of got stuck in that flow.
Nothing against LR, I guess I feel if Camera Raw does the same as Develop Module, and I don’t do high volume sorts/edits. I do use layers quite a bit and just never felt the need to change from RAW/Photoshop to Develop, move to PS and back again.
Just me being an old dog!
Thanks for asking!
I have been a Bridge/Camera Raw user since they first came out. Yeah back when you were making fun of Bridge. They came out about the time I was switching to digital and from Motorsports to Nature photography I like the simplicity and how easy it makes things. I don’t make photographs I take photographs and a god photo to me needs about five maybe 10 minutes of post processing. Any longer than that and my favorite key on the keyboard, the delete key, kicks in.
I bought your Photoshop for Photographers course and enjoyed it, but I get more out of your tutorials. I did look into Lightroom and it looked cool, but nothing I was really interested in and or needed.
Over the years and lots of schooling I have had a handful of good teachers and you are one of them. Thanks!
So Matt, someone sends you a jpeg you want to edit. Will it open in ACR? Or what if you don’t always shoot RAW ( I always do)?
I’d open in to Photoshop and probably go to Filter > Camera Raw filter and quickly edit there.
Jpgs do open in ACR. I do it all the time.
This is what I use. When I first started photography I was advised to learn Photoshop so I skipped Lightroom and have never used it. Camera Raw works fine. I organize my images in folders of my own and back them up. I just started exploring Bridge. I agree, there is no “right” way to edit!
I started my photography journey, back in the *80’s film days. While I still miss my kodachrome and other film “attachments.” I do see some advantages to digital and have never found a way to make lightroom a tool for me actually downloading and organizing my photos in a way that makes sense to me. I love photography but in some ways this digital stuff is more trouble than it is worth. I still have one of my old film cameras I just need to get some film battery and possible a ND and PL filter for the Lense. I am also considering switching to Cannon as my current outfit is a Nikon. Nice but not the look I am looking for. Nikon may be the first in lenses but it can be too real for me.
I prefer Camera Raw and making my own folders. I do not like the way Lightroom operates it feels large and chaotic to use. That might be because I have used Photoshop for years and am comfortable with it.
Started with PS Elements – found the migration to PS overwhelming and switched to LR which is now LRC. I like the organization, use keywords for my business, appreciate the upgrades when they happen and only go to PS infrequently if I need to increase canvas or play with textures. Works for me – but I’m very organized. Appreciate all your update videos & the courses.
I’ve never used the other develop sites, primarily because I’m extremely comfortable with LRC and frankly not interested in the learning curve. But more importantly it works for me for all the reasons you outlined. I am able to do everything I need to do and with the addition of Nik and Topaz I’m creating some good to very good photos. I am now only photographing with my Pro Max iPhone and with the additional develop tools available on the phone and iPad, plus LR it’s sorta like one stop shopping.
I find light room too cumbersome. I have a logical simple organizing system and am perfectly happy with Bridge. I think that perhaps you produce thousands of images per month, it might be good to spend some time creating catalogue and such in LR, but I want simple retrieval system and the Bridge works great and easy to edit. I do know how to usee LR but I will stick with Bridge.
I have been a Camera Raw user for as long as I have been using Photoshop (decades).
I was never a fan of Lightroom because I didn’t want my photos stored in catalogs. Fortunately, I am an organized person and I developed a system for organizing and storing my photos on my hard disk. I have been using Photo Mechanic for many years for ingesting my photos and storing them in dated and labeled folders. I recognize that Lightroom (not Lightroom Classic) now works locally similar to Photo Mechanic, but for whatever reason, Adobe seems to be releasing new features in Camera Raw first, so I stayed with my familiar workflow.
I also support your recent videos showing that because of the recent changes to Camera Raw, all of your tone, color, and effects work should be done on the RAW file in Camera Raw (or Lightroom) and you should only jump into Photoshop for distraction removal and perhaps, some color grading (I believe there are still more options for color grading in Photoshop compared to Camera Raw). I recognize that this may be a departure for many people from the workflow they have been using for years (Thom Hogan recently commented about this), but as you point out, there are reasons for and advantages to performing nearly all of your workflow in Camera Raw.
So no, I do not think you are ‘crazy’ for suggesting this workflow, it’s similar to the one I have been using for years.
I do not like being tied to my computer. I love the new Lightroom that I can use on my phone and on my computer if I eant to. I think that is something you could be teaching. I keep all my folders and albums organized in Lightroom and today after a shoot I used lightroom to cleanup and do my basic editing. This is a good workflow for those not doing masdive shoots for clients such as wedding photographers etc. But is a great alternative for many.
In our photo club we have some newbies who haven’t used any photo editing software yet and they’re a little reluctant to just jump into LRC, LR, or PS with camera raw. Most of us experienced photographers use LRC + PS. So your comments are very welcome for those that haven’t gotten into a pattern yet and aren’t sure if they want to go whole hog into LRC or LR. I’ll point your comments out to them as we all try to help them get going with the editing side of photography.
It took me several years of dabbling before I committed to Lightroom 18 years or so ago (after Picasa and other obsolete editors, but since I finally made the plunge I vane grown to love the organizational and expanding editing tools. But I agree with you that some people may be happier without Lightroom’s organizational tools, so why not let them know how to work without them. But I would be lost without the ability to find almost any photo in my 87,000 item collection in seconds.
I have always liked file naming and sorting in Bridge being actual files… Then coordinating them in LR because of the extra modules… but yes, you can go straight to PS Camera Raw to edit that has more effective tools these days.
I fell off my editing workflow during covid and am in a relearning phase. Virtually forgot what I used to do in PS! So I need ‘mental rehab’. Cheers
Well, you are probably crazy, but it makes sense. Thanks for having the courage to try a reset of “the norm.”
As much as I have tried and have purchased your tutorials, I still have problems with LR. your tutorials are GREAT, it’s definitely not you, more like I found it a real P I T A.😉. I like simple, such as: view, keep, delete, edit, save in folder…done.
I have the Adobe photo plan and it costs me $20+ and don’t use it. I want to get my photos off their system and into my computer and quit. I don’t know how to do that and that’s why I haven’t quit the photo plan. I favor On1 Software because I find it much friendlier. You buy the upgrade once a year and that’s it. I wish I would have used them from the beginning.
I think Adobe is great but it is overkill and overpriced for me. I am retired and photography is strictly a hobby now. Thanks for all you do. My other email is gprofitt@tampabay.rr.combut I can receive mail but not send.
Adobe has a Lightroom -Photoshop plan for 9.95 a month if you don’t want their storage.
Finally, a course I am considering. I have no interest in Bridge at this time. It seems like an extra step. I simply import all images into a folder and then divide into subfolders, if needed. I import one image at a time into Camera Raw. I want to learn how to create such things as a linear gradient and other adjustments in PS to edit only a part of the photo. Since I don’t know how to do that in PS, I import into Luminar where the edits are user-friendly. Does tihs course cover all types of edits?
Hi David. It covers Bridge and also Camera Raw. So if you want to learn camera raw, it would cover that. Thanks.
Hi Matt, I use Camera Raw and I use ACDSee Photo Studio for Mac for my data management. I start out using Lightroom when it first came out. After a while I didn’t like the import and also all the tiff files it produced using plug-ins, plus I ended up going to Photoshop anyway. Now I just go into ACDSee find my photo and open in Camera Raw and then into Photoshop, if I need too, and I only end up with two files the original Raw and PSD. Good workflow for me. Just didn’t like the Import and all the tiff files Lightroom Generated.
Hi Dennis. Just so you know, Lightroom doesn’t generate ANY Tiff files at all. Photoshop generates them if you go to it from Lightroom. And even if you use ACDSee, and move to Photoshop you will generate a TIFF (or PSD – same thing) file as well. It is impossible not to make a copy of your raw file if you go in to Photoshop. Good to have your own workflow and that’s fine. But what you said is incorrect so I just wanted to make sure you knew that Lightroom was not generating TIFF files and your workflow will still generate them if you use Photoshop. Thanks.
I’m a serious Lightroom Classic user to the point that I no longer even install Bridge on my computer. But I agree that everyone has their own style and needs to use what works best for them.
I do honestly believe that a lot of Bridge/Photoshop users (at least the few that I know) have never even given Lightroom a chance. But hey, to each their own.
My biggest problem with programs that allow one to enhance their photos is that there is constant change. Also, I have found that there is no one person who can adequately explain how programs like Lightroom and Photoshop work, although there are some that come very close. Now there is Bridge and Camera Raw, both of which I haven’t yet attempted to learn. However, I would welcome a program that could help me organize my files.
Ok, here is my two cents.
I started in Ps in 1998. ACR was a $99 plug in you bought from Adobe after your purchase of PS. The only other option was Corel Photo Paint.
Digital photography had just had a good start. My first dslr was a Nikon D100. It came with a mini disk for memory.
I was at that time employed to start and over see a colo wide format printing service bureau. We processed image files and large quantities of scanned images.
Corel was ok but not great. I bought PS and spent hours learning. When ACR landed things got better. We worked ACR into PS big time. At this time I was a partner in a photography business doing motor sports photography. The whole ACR route was the way.
I have learned the LR process as well. Both work. I still do Bridge to PS as well. In all both are good. I just have so many years with Bridge to PS it is very comfortable. I have done your classes on LR and they are good stuff.
Way more than you wanted to know.
Thanks for the great classes.
This is so true!. I teach technology to boomers and sometimes I struggle knowing how to present something on the computer that can be done five or six different ways. I never know what they may have learned or what path they may have followed to do a certain task so I either have to teach every possible way which is overwhelming or I need to choose one that I feel is going to be best for someone. We can’t read minds!
I’m a 75 year old retired EE that have loved playing with cameras most of my life. I have come to love LR Classic to download, organize then select prints that either LR or PS may touch before printing via PS. I have gotten to like this group of edit tools even adding new benefits as mostly LR Classic has evolved. But I also don’t care for change being (admittedly) stuck in my ways not liking to seek new – even though I know I’m missing really neat advances. Curiosity will cause a jump to add new ways as neat (and relevant to my very focused likes) come to be known. Though I am aware of being a stick in the mud, at my point I like it – usually.
My problem with Lightroom is that it started out as file management program which has had various other functions bolted onto it over the years. Adobe may think it’s a Swiss Army Knife tool, but I find to be a bit of a mess. My other concern is the catalogues which seem prone to disappearing. As a professional whose clients depend on my archiving, I would never use it to catalogue images. I create named, dated OS client folders which go back for years. They’re stable and I can find any image in seconds by pressing Command F. But if it works for you, that’s great. We all have our own workflows and the really important thing is a stable, repeatable workflow that works for you, however you design it.
I am a dyed in the wool bridge camera raw user. I tried Lightroom because it came with my subscription and I have used it to create photo books, but I find Lightroom so similar to camera raw that I have remained with my original workflow. There is so much to learn in camera raw now as it has evolved so a course is a great idea.
However, I think people use what they are used to, so if I had started with Lightroom, I might be telling a different story.
I’ve used Lightroom for about 25 years now and your doesn’t article doesn’t cover enough info for me to see why I should try anything else. Doing a lot of restoration of old photos, the ability to have multiple virtual copies is very, very useful. Does your solution offer anything to replace that?
I have a habit of taking tons of images with me when I relocate to my cottage for the summer where I add a ton more new pictures. I started using photoshop before Lightroom existed and grew used to managing my huge file collection by a few simple steps. One place for every image (no Lightroom catalog to fuss with) when I returned back to my home base where my files all resided with copies on backup hard drives. Just copy and paste the new and updated file folders from the summer’s work. I wasn’t at all concerned about volume of pixels because hard drive space was expanding and costs were declining. Bridge was a great simple tool for organizing files and I worked out a way to keep everything well organized for retrieving files. As Camera Raw incorporated all the tricks of Lightroom develop I lost nothing by staying with bridge . As Photoshop developed layers and masks the tools I wanted were there without the hassle of the catalogue.
Lightroom sometimes hangs and slows the processing, so at times I have used bridge. That said, in many cases the keywording and metadata searches are very helpful in Lightroom. The editing tools in LR are sometimes more efficient than that in photoshop. I find the movement from LR to some third party apps can be smooth than alternatives so given the benefits and large number of files in LR, I will continue using it.
THe LR interface to CameraRaw is superior, clearer, better organized than PS.
I’ll continue using LR, but thank Matt for making me think about it.
As a user of Photoshop Elements for many years, Lightroom Classic opened up a whole new world of editing and organization for me. And I love the organization – especially the Collections feature. No more saving Tiffs of my favorite photos to my hard drive, which took up a lot of storage. It used to be said, “Storage is cheap”. Well, it ain’t anymore! The only time I use Photoshop these days is if I have a particularly tricky item I want to remove, or I need to add canvas to a photo. Otherwise, it’s Lightroom Classic for me!
In over 20 years of using Photoshop, Lightroom never was an option. I have even spent good money on a LR course in 2010 but never got over the block of the Filing system. And most important, there are no layers in LR. Once you have a workflow that you understand, emphasis on understand, not a recipe, then you can ACR, Photpshop, ACR, and back as the need requires. As for folders for files, everyone has a preference. I have > 500k images and can find any images over 20 years within a few minutes. So no Lightroom. Just open your work folder in bridge, and it opens in ACR. So Matt, good for you to teach the Bridge ACR Photoshop way. I wish you success.
I organize files/folders at the OS level because of trust issues. Any software company can change their pricing policies (e.g., Adobe), discontinue products (e.g., Google), get bought (e.g. Topaz, Nik), or make other undesirable business/technical decisions (e.g., Luminar went from AI to NEO without support AI catalog for a while). There are also cases when Adobe is/was not the best RAW starting point. Fujifilm XTRANS RAF support lagged; direction/depth data from Nikon’s NEF that NX Studio can display but Adobe cannot. The latest version of Affinity is better at Astro. DxO’s Photolab 10/RAW6 is currently better at RAW in my eyes.
I name and organize folders by Year, Month, Subject, Location, and add a simple text file in the folder to describe what that folder contains (including equipment used). By organizing at the OS level, at least in a rudimentary way, I can find things without firing up any software.
You didn’t mention that Collections in ACR are different than in LrC. Though they bear the same name, they are structurally not interchangeable and you lose that work moving in either direction. It is one of my barriers between moving.
Also, plug-ins are available in PS and LrC but not LR, so depending on which version of LR you use, you may need to adjust your workflow for some of these external software packages.
Lastly, I have heard you mention that large pieces of PS are not designed for the photographer, so why should I move to PS when LrC is primarily a photography product. While I find there are certain functions such as the remove tools in PS to be better, LrC tends to get all the features that are in ACR, a short time later.
Your point is well taken, I am an advanced amateur. For myself the biggest problem I have with Photoshop these days is Lightroom. I have been using Lightroom since it came out and am very comfortable with it. It has gotten powerful enough that I’m going to Photoshop less and less. I find myself forgetting how to do something and need to look it up. There are some photos that I don’t want in my Lightroom collections so I simply take those to Camera Raw and Photoshop.
But, I have 4 pro/semipro/advanced amateur friends who have never used Lightroom or use it in a very limited fashion. They have been firmly in the Bridge/Camera Raw/Photoshop workflow world for many years and feel Lightroom has no added value for them. How they edit a photo is very different from what I do, but they get great results. You can’t argue with great results.
Hi Matt, I certainly don’t think you’re crazy. I don’t like Lightroom because of its persistence to use the catalog. I never got past that and got enormously frustrated with the program. I use capture one pro now, without the catalog function. Capture one puts my photos in nice folders I name myself. I use photoshop too, as a plug-in directly from C1.
Love your videos, learned a lot about photoshop from you.
Cheers from the Netherlands
Ruud
I have used this workflow since the introduction of Bridge over 20 years ago. It is simple to use. I work on my photos at my primary home for half of the year and at my winter home the other half. Same hardware and software in both locations. With the Bridge Raw workflow it is easy to keep them in sync.
My first attempt at Lightroom confused me so I never went back.
I download my cards to a folder. The folders are organized by year, month and location/activity or subject. It takes only a minute or so to find one of my 27000 photos. Moving them into catalogs would be a nightmare now.
Matt,
It’s funny you asked this question because I have been pondering it lately. I have a small YouTube channel (<6k followers) and am the primary instructor for a couple clubs on the eastern shore of Maryland. It seems whenever I teach a process where it involves ACR I get pushback. I get comments like I am trying to trick them into using something other than LRc or that there is something wrong with LRc. Even when ACR is more capable (due to the way Adobe pushes changes to ACR first) I still get resistance.
Personally since I have used LRc for over 10 years, I am partial to using it as my primary application. But I have no problem using either (LRc or ACR) depending on what I am doing. Bridge is still kind of mystery to me but I have a friend who uses it regularly. It seems to be a very useful application. I just haven’t looked into how to use it for photo management when I am heavily invested in LRc catalogs.
I have been a customer/follower of yours for many years. I actually ran across you and a group in Maine MANY years ago. I just watched from a distance. You attitude, patience and knowledge won me over. I trust your judgement and opinion. It has never led me astray. I would be interested in a workflow and/or process with Bridge/ACR. Might lead to better workflow. You just never know till you try. And if you are going to do the heavy lifting and work it all out, I am game.
I hope you and your family have a great fall and holiday season.
Mick
Thanks Mickey. Sounds like you have a good workflow. Not sure it’s worth changing. Remember, I use Lightroom (not classic) for most of my photography. I do use Bridge/ACR for various projects but I also want to be clear in saying this is not my workflow – I’m just answering the question I get often by making a course showing that this workflow is identical to mine. Just different programs.
You are so aware of some of us really old photoshop. Camera raw really changed my photography life bridge could read documents and it has always been where I was most comfortable Lightroom has just recently become decent to work with
Personally I find it difficult to understand why people want to fight with Lightroom’s catalogue. I gave up on it well over ten years ago – Bridge gives me all the tools I need to manage/browse my folders, and I’ve been telling anyone who’ll listen to do the same.
It’s not a fight if you know how to use it. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t like the catalog, but I do understand why people do.
Having started with photoshop years ago I am still using this basic process, but in place of Bridge I use Photo Mechanic for ingest/review/select then open in Camera RAW.
Probably more out of habit, but early days of using Lightroom confused me on file management and taking up too much space (files were duplicated in two places if I remember right). I think it is much more streamlined now, but I am still using the process I have become comfortable with.
Hi Matt,
You’re right; it’s a habit. I learned to use Lightroom Classic many years ago, and I use it, not to its full extent, but just enough to suit my needs. Same with Photoshop.
In Lightroom Classic, I like Collections, and then I export a collection to another program, Pictures to EXE, to create a slideshow for my grandchildren. Can I do that in the new workflow? I don’t know. Do I need to know, yes, if Adobe decides to stop developing Lightroom Classic?
Many thanks, as always, for your suggestions, tutorials, and courses.
Regards,
Michael
Hi Michael. I hope you’re doing well. I would not switch. Even if Lightroom Classic goes away, moving to Lightroom will be a much better choice. Remember, I’m not saying I use this workflow for my photography. I’m saying I do use it sometimes, but I’m more creating something for those that do. I would personally recommend Lightroom (not classic).
As a long time LRC user, when discussing workflow some folks just don’t want the restrictions that LR imposes on them, like their images in their folders on their drive. Over the years yours self and Brian have done an excellent job providing material as to how to get the best from LR and we don’t for the most of it need to go to Photoshop to process our images. I have just been looking at the work of Eric Bennett and he is a CR to photoshop guy for his luminosity lifting, this has opened my eyes as to what is possible in Photoshop. I will still be able to follow on from LRC to photoshop as the pathway is there. It really is horses for courses but for those that don’t want the LR environment a new course you propose will be perfect.
Then there is the ON1 workflow. No need for catalogs, just open the file in your folder and go. Very close to the Photoshop workflow. New stuff coming that makes it easier to manage and cull files. Also works inside Photoshop (as you know).
Yes, but you don’t get the editing tools which are what makes Adobe the best out there. Organize where you want… it has no impact on the look of your photos, so who cares right? But editing is important and I believe Adobe makes the best out there. Thanks.
I agree with you and for some the “complexities” of catalogues, sidecar files, rating images and moving folders within lightroom only is just too much to handle. And others, like myself, got started along that path a long time ago, have catalogues going back decades and everything is fine. But if I were to start over now and know my current habits of taking hundreds or thousands of pictures in a day, I might decide to go to the bridge and save the time and work of importing everything into LR Classic. I usually rate the photos and delete 95% and just keep the winners. I used Topaz Photo but with Adobe buying them and the denoise features now in LR, that practice will likely end when my Topaz subscription expires. Things change and we need to, also. Matt, you and I usually think very similarly and I greatly appreciate all your videos–you really do us a great service, I hope you keep it up.
Old habits die hard. I’m a Bridge->photoshop->camera raw guy. I’ll try your way and see if it makes a difference to me.