Does Never Really Mean Never?

I’m totally writing this against my better judgement. Seriously, I know the whole Creative Cloud fury has died down and I must be dumb for even bringing this up. But I’m truly curious to see your thoughts and I’m hoping/trusting that you can keep it from turning into another bash-fest against the Creative Cloud. So…here’s an interesting thought, question, topic, whatever you want to call it. I had a discussion with some one the other day and they asked if I was going to start teaching more on Photoshop Elements. Don’t get me wrong. I love Elements and recommend it daily to people. But I asked why. They said that it seemed natural because so many people are upset about this whole Adobe Creative Cloud subscription thing – and that Elements seemed like the program they would migrate to. It got me thinking about the future of post-processing and where some of the hangups now are.

1) Many people don’t like Adobe’s Subscription model for Photoshop and have said they will NEVER “rent” or subscribe to get their software.

2) Many people (many of the same people from #1 above) have said that they’ll find a Photoshop alternative (like maybe Elements or one of the 3rd party plug-ins). In other words, they’ll stop using Photoshop and start using another program that does something similar.

So here’s what got me thinking. For starters, I have to tell you a story about AT&T and something that happened to me 10+ years ago. See, I moved and had an AT&T contract for my phone. Well, where I moved had horrible cell reception. I called AT&T and because of the distance of the closest tower and what they considered to be “acceptable” reception, they wouldn’t do anything. Wouldn’t even let me out of my 2 year contract. So if I wanted to be able to use my phone at my house, I was given no choice but to cancel my contract and pay the contract cancellation fee. They offered me nothing else. I was pissed! Livid! I swore I’d “NEVER EVER… EVER” use AT&T again.

Fast forward to about 5-6 years ago when the iPhone came out. I wanted one. And you know the only place I could go to get it? Yup. AT&T. So my “never ever ever” turned in to “I’ll never use AT&T… EVER…until they have something I really want”. I signed back up with them and have been a happy customer ever since.

So I wonder if this dislike (okay, hatred) for the Creative Cloud subscription will ever be like that for some people? I mean, it’s easy to say I’ll NEVER subscribe. But what happens when some killer feature comes out in Photoshop (or some other Adobe app or even a whole new app). Does it change anything? I know that some people will hold their ground on principle alone. But I have to believe that some people will eventually subscribe.

Here’s something else to think about. In all markets (not just photography), the so-called “Pros” tend to lead the trends right? It happens in golf, tennis, football, heck even in popular cooking shows on tv. We see some big-name golfer using a certain set of golf clubs and we go out and buy those clubs (or golf balls, or gloves, or tennis racquets, or pots and pans from your favorite cooking show… you get the idea). So is the photography/post-processing market any different? What’s going to happen when the latest version of Photoshop CC starts to outgrow previous versions (CS6 or CS5) and there’s a bigger gap? It’s not a huge deal right now if I teach with Photoshop CC and you still have CS6 because the features are nearly identical. But what happens in two or three years when more and more features get added to Photoshop CC? Should I do every tutorial with “Here’s how to do it in Photoshop CC… and here’s how to do it in CS6… and here’s how to do it in CS5”? I mean, would you expect Joe McNally to show everything he does with a Nikon D3 and then show it with a Nikon D4? No, of course not. Could Joe take a great photo with the D3? Yup. Just like the golf pro can shoot under par with clubs he had 15 years ago. But they’ve upgraded to the newer stuff because, as a pro, it made sense for them. We, as people who follow them, want to see how they do it now and what tools they use. Not how they would do it if they were using older tools. Photoshop is a pro’s tool. The pro’s will continue to use the newest version. What’s this mean for people who want to follow and learn what they do?

Okay, so you can say that some one else will come up with a Photoshop competitor/alternative. I’d say they already exist (onOne, Nik?). And I bet more will come. I’d bet more companies are now working on that as their mission, than there were 3 months ago. But this stuff takes time. First, they have to develop the software. Then, as I mentioned above, they have to get the pros on board and get them to drop Photoshop. But we already talked about this… the pros don’t have a reason to drop Photoshop CC because the cloud makes sense for them. See the cycle here? Plus, this all takes time. And I have no idea if it will all really happen. But I can tell you that we’d have to be years away from it.

Anyway, it’s just something to think about. Does Never Really Mean Never? And please don’t leave your thoughts on subscription models here. We already know that nobody likes it. I know many of you reading this say you’ll never ever “rent” your software. Is your “never ever” a guaranteed lock and you won’t budge no matter what? Or is your “never ever” like my sworn enemy of AT&T? 🙂 I mean, once things simmer down and the dust settles. You have to imagine that Adobe is working on a good (and affordable) subscription model for photographers. Once that happens (and the right price makes sense for you), does all of this anger subside, or are you going to be a GIMP user for life 😉
(FYI… GIMP is a freely distributed image editing program that’s been around for many years)

NOTE: Folks, peeps, my homies… PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don’t turn this in to another comment stream on how you hate cloud subscription services. I know. I get it. I’ve heard it. That’s not the point here and we all already know how it turns out. This is more of a story of something that happened to me and something I’ve been thinking about. If you leave a comment then try to keep it geared to the questions/thoughts posed at the end of the post. Thanks 🙂

99 Comments

Matt Kloskowski

Thanks Jeff. That’s exactly what I was looking for from the comments. A simple, yes or no. Very well written post btw… I may not agree with it all but it was definitely to the point. Thanks for being the first comment and not turning this into another bash-fest 🙂

Reply
Steve Schuenke

But there’s the rub. You might say you will use CS6 forever, but eventually some feature will come out, your plug-ins will have new bells and whistles you’ll want, etc, and you won’t be able to run them on CS6. You may want a new camera but you won’t be able to open them in CS6/Bridge. What I see this coming down to is Lightroom becoming more popular to all levels of photographers, plug-in developers will probably make their products run stand alone … and Photoshop will be more of niche product for compositors or heavy retouchers.

Reply
Melissa

I live in New York State and moved to Connecticut and when I moved I said I would NEVER move back to New York. Well guess what, just over a year later I moved back (due to job relocation) and have been back ever since. The grass is not always greener and sometimes we need to swallow our pride and go with the changes. Change always occurs and if you don’t grasp the change then you will cease to grow no matter what field it is in. That’s my thought Matt.

Reply
Sam Stierman

Ultimately, we have to decide what makes the most sense for our specific situation. I can understand getting upset at the new model since for many of us it’s more expensive. No one has control over the decisions that come from Adobe’s board, not even Scott (despite what some believe).
One can hope Adobe will come up with a solution that better fits the needs of photographers.

As far as your post, I’ll never say, “Never.” We’ll see…

Reply
Peter Nord

I teach old geezer photography at the local U. My students are over 50, some 70’s, retired. They can afford the 20 bucks a month. When I get them they are usually using whatever software came with their camera, or some free downloaded stuff. For them Photoshop was a bigger expense, and learning curve than they wanted. When the CC program came out I explained it to them thinking they’d like it. What surprised me was that they wanted me to explain the costs of, and compare and contrast Lightroom and Photoshop Elements.

I’ve decided that in demonstrating the development of a photo I’ll use Lightroom rather than ACR as I had been. If my students are typical of baby boomers now interested in photography, there will be little demand from that group of beginners for CC, more because they feel it’s for a level beyond them rather than some financial reason. However I think Adobe could peddle a lot of Lightroom/Elements bundle to this large group of people.

I think this is something for Kelby Training to explore. How about a training web site for baby boomers emphasizing basic photography, Lightroom/Elements, There are a lot of these folks; they can afford it; they come to me after touring another continent with thousand of photos in their new camera asking now what do they do. You need to have every point and shoot camera manufacturer place a Kelby Old Geezer Training certificate in with every camera. They need all the help they can get, and most know it. So they are ready to buy your service.

Reply
David de la Rocha

No, forever isn’t forever.

As mad as I might get at a vendor, such as Adobe, they can always change things to make it more affordable to the hobbyist photographer.

You’re right, many of us do like to follow the lead of the professional, but I’m not sure where this will go. I have a feeling that if things change and there is a more affordable package for photographers, they will take it. Otherwise many of us are already looking at other software, like DxO, SagelightEditor, etc.

Personally, I’m going to hold off on upgrading to Lightroom5 in order to investigate these other software options. I am glad that I did not purchase CS6, like I was planning, and instead will stick with Lightroom4 & Elements10 for the time being.

Reply
Gregg Mack

I am not in any hurry to get onto the CC subscription bandwagon. I intend to delay that for as long as possible though…. and I have upgraded to every version since my initial purchase of Photoshop 7. I use Lightroom 5 as my main photo processing program, and only occasionally pass a photo into Photoshop CS6 to finish it up (or Merge to HDR or Pano). I believe that Adobe will add some very nice features to PS CC, but I’ll just have to live without them until I get onto the subscription bandwagon. Realistically, I see that happening sometime in the future after I upgrade to a newer computer, with a newer operating system that isn’t compatible with CS6, or possibly when I upgrade to a newer camera (in which case I hope that Lightroom will add support for, but that new version of Lightroom will no longer pass the DNG over to my then ancient PS CS6 (with it’s ancient Camera Raw capabilities).

Reply
Evan Gearing

As a CS6 user, I may go to the cloud in the future. However, I’m going to take a wait and see approach as I don’t do this stuff for a living, but I like Photoshop versus other products such as PaintShop Pro. I may even go to Elements someday… Anyway, stranger things have happened in that licensing options can change. I’m a sys admin by trade and in the computer world, VMware changed their licensing, there was a huge uproar and then VMware changed it back. You never know… Can’t say I like the idea of CC, but am open to it when the time comes.. maybe…

Reply
Cal Kaschub

So will there be more attention given to PS Element users? I’m not ruling out CC at all. I changed from PS to Elements after CS3 because I only used CS3 rarely and found Elements would do the things I needed to to that Lightroom would do, or do well. I will certainly go back to PS if the need arises. Back to my question…

Reply
Matt Kloskowski

No Cal – I don’t see more attention going to Elements. As I mentioned in the post, most people tend to follow what the pros use. I don’t see the pros switching to Elements 🙂

Reply
A.G. Photography

Matt, do you think Adobe might be thinking they’ve overextended with their software and it doesn’t make sense for them to continue producing software that doesn’t sell as well?

Reply
john4jack

Personally, I appreciate the way that Photoshop CC and LR integrate so well. Also, there are some features that I use regularly in PSCC that I cannot get anywhere else (i.e., Russell Brown’s Adobe Paper Texture Pro extension). But most of all, after a long, arduous learning curve with PS, it is now familiar. I am almost 78 yrs. old and I want to minimize the learning curves that I take on. Also, contrary to many others, I find the CC more cost beneficial than many things in photography for which I plunk out money. Unless I have some major problems, I intend to move on.

Reply
john181818

Hi Matt.

For me never means never until or unless Adobe adds what was once discussed on The Grid as the Lightshop idea. Specifically having PS and LR as a subscription for $19.99 per month. Other than that I will continue to update LR as necessary and use CS6 for the few things I really need Photoshop to accomplish. I did buy the OnOne and NIK suites for a total of under $300.00 so I have those options available to me.

I don’t necessarily agree with your view that the CC debate has died down. I just think that folks, such as myself, have just decided not to post very much and have decided how we will proceed in lieu of what I consider to be Adobe’s stupid move with the CC as it pertains to hobbyists or low level professionals. I can see value in CC for larger scale operations or high level professionals who want or need the entire suite, but I suspect many of us don’t want or need the entire suite.

I really hope that this was a non-inflammatory response to your topic.

Reply
William Beem

I was certainly upset by the change in licensing model. I only used Photoshop and Lightroom. The change in pricing definitely was a slap in the face and a huge price increase, but I didn’t say that I would NEVER do it.

However, I took time to investigate alternatives. For $15, I quite like Pixelmator. I’m amazed just how much I could do with it, including a few things that Photoshop didn’t seem to do. Ultimately, it lacked a few key things (like Alignment) that added time to my workflow. It also doesn’t integrate with 3rd party plugin tools.

My decision to finally get into Creative Cloud required a change of my approach. It’s not a good value for Photoshop and Lightroom. It’s value is much greater if I used more of the applications in the suite. I looked at some of the work I’ve performed in other tools and found them a bit lacking, which meant I could probably take advantage of InDesign and Premier Pro. It’s worth a year’s subscription to check out those tools to create more value for the monthly cost.

The other aspect of my decision is due to my blog. I make a decent amount of money from it and it’s more than enough to cover the monthly cost of Creative Cloud. It would be a poor business decision to remain stagnant, though I don’t see anything right now that’s substantially different for the things I do.

There are times when I say “NEVER” and stick with it. I had a bad experience with a Westcott rep at PSW a couple of years ago and swore that I would never buy one of their products again. Haven’t done it and don’t feel tempted.

The difference between the two was a change in business strategy by Adobe vs. something I considered to be personal disrespect. I got tweaked by Adobe’s decision, but that’s about it. My feelings about Westcott were much stronger, so I fall back on the wisdom I learned from the Mennonites – I just shunned them out of my life. They go their way and I go mine.

Reply
jon2000

never will use a subcription based software…ever and will never go back to A&T (going on 10 yrs)

Reply
Francis Dorsemaine

Hi Matt – I also like the Lightshop idea. This could be a LR + PSE CC as long as PSE becomes at least 16 bits.

Reply
A.G. Photography

Hi Matt!

I am a geeek….let’s start with that. I love technology and various things a piece of software can do sometimes. That said, I doubt I will subscribe to CC permanently.

Meaning, let’s say I have a really nice photo with a tad of camera shake…well, you know even I will subscribe for one month, fix it, and then cancel it back.

The photo however would have to be something absolutely irreplaceable.

Second, if you take into consideration that to call yourself a “photographer” you no longer really need 4 year degree credentials, and Elements will do, then you could realize that there is a whole mass of people who don’t need anything passed Elements. “Elements will do”, just like a “Any DSLR will do”. (I feel bad for their clients, but whatever).

Third: Like I said many times before. If I was employed by Kelby Media, (or an Ad Agency) I would subscribe because that’s what you/they use because they have a continuous work flow, so it makes sense; plus you guys will continue to teach on future CC versions regardless of how many subscribers they have. However, I have CS6 Extended, I have the latest Elements, I have Lightroom & Aperture, and Photomatix, and CS5.5, and I wish I had enough time to use all of them! Matter of fact, I need a new way of trimming mass processing. Working on it. So far it employed the delete button right in camera a lot. If its not good enough, its not staying. LOL

Less is more.

Fourth, look at Nokia Lumia…those who will buy it, won’t ever need Photoshop, or Elements…Or Lightroom! All in one phone!

Fifth I know people who actually “brag” (as preposterous as it sounds) that they use “Photoshop”! The reality is that they don’t even know what the Pen tool does, but they brag that they “work in Photoshop”!!! (head smack). So for these folks it will continue to be a “Status” thing.

My point is that there is a broad “future” to post processing, and no two people will make the same choices for the same reasons. I for one, if I don’t have a steady busy work flow, I cannot justify it. The 19,99 is for a year locked in contract, so for me it would be $29.99 (which BTW I did get refunded after I gave it a shot last month for two weeks), so I am not locked into a 1 year contract. This “lock in” is what I have a major problem with with all companies not just Adobe.

See, here’s the thing: I CAN justify a Kelby Training subscription any day! Why? because:

1. I can always learn something new

2. I can even have my kids watch Tamara Lackey and watch what the other kids are told to do…

3. I am a visual learner, meaning I can read a book for three years and not learn whatever as fast as I can learn it if someone show’s me how to do it. That’s because of my past as a professional ballet dancer, where choreographers show you physically what to do. Started that when I was 4, so now I am used to learn by watching more than by reading.

4. Even if I know already what’s being taught, I love watching a different perspective on something that’s been taught. I watch for fun, for entertainment too not just to learn something. Peter Hurley is hilarious to watch…

BUT When it comes to subscribing to “software”, which I already have several previous versions offffff, and that is not entirely 1000% new software, I have a very hard time to find a way to justify the subscription.

I’ve been doing freelance work as a graphic designer since 1998, I, as many others I know, have created their own work flow, and favor certain tools on their daily tasks, creations whatever, so we get used to doing certain things in a certain way, and if it works and its not broken why fix it?

Guess what, I have Verizon since 2005, obviously they wanted everyone at some point to switch to 2GB of bandwidth and STILL pay $30! I found a loop hole, and managed to upgrade my iPhone and keep my Unlimited Data plan for $29.99.
I could have switched to Sprint, but why bother? I found away around it.

I think I know why you’re wondering about the future of post processing.

Reply
BigChaz

Glutton for punishment, huh?

I’m a hobbyist/serious amateur/semi-pro. I wasn’t jazzed about the subscription-only plan for PS CC. My biggest issues are
1. The cost – sure, $10 a month for the first year is a good deal, but when it goes to $20 a month, it’s no longer a good deal for me. Yes…I know that PS CC includes 3D capabilities – something that I don’t use at all. If Adobe were to keep the price at $10 a month for life (or even for a reasonable period of time beyond a year), I’d consider it.
2. Potential hardware upgrade needed – there’s always the potential that an updated version of PS could require hardware beyond what i currently have. I don’t want to find out that my 2 or 3 year old MBP won’t cut it to run PS CC, and have no alternative.

I’m still using PS CS6 as it does what I need and supports my camera. I’m waiting to see if Adobe actually takes your (i.e. the Photoshop Guys) advice and creates a “Photoshop for Photographers” version.

And yes…I’m also waiting to see what Apple does with Aperture. I prefer Aperture’s organization over Lr, but use Lr because of the end result when I process an image.

Reply
John_Skinner

I will never subscribe to Adobe’s CC.

I will continue to us MY D3… And CS6.

If Mr. Kelby, yourself, and all the gang at NAPP choose to start down that road of ‘whatever new tutorials will be on CC features, I’ll drop NAPP like McD’s trash and not look back.

I already use most of the popular plugin packages in my CS6 workflow, I see no REAL replacement for Photoshop.

And my D3 is great, it was the day I spent 5 grand on it, and it till make the best pictures I’ve ever taken in 30+ years doing this.

And IMHO, You were wrong in going back to AT&T.

I had Sears call me one time that a $16.00 cheque had bounced. I attended the store THAT DAY to clear it up. The woman treated me like a thief and was very rude to me. THAT was in 1979. I said I would never shop there again.. I meant it. I no worst off having not spent a dime at Sears in 32 years.

Reply
A.G. Photography

Matt It really boils down to demographics. Really, really, does. Have you checked KT demographics?

Reply
Don Fahnestock

I say “never,” only to Apple products, because of the Chinese (child) slavery that goes into them, which needn’t be the case. But, I admit that someday I might be forced to use an Apple product.

On CC, I wanted to sign up for the $10/mo plan, but found out that having a “student / teacher” version of CS5, only the $20/mo plan is available. I’d just gotten Lr5, so took some time to think. Then I read a blog by Scott Kelby, in which I thought he wrote that he thinks PsCC isn’t yet ready for photographer prime time. If that was his position, is it still his position?

I buy your rationale to teach on the most up-to-date product. If that was and still is Scott’s position on PsCC, why not teach on CS6? If that wasn’t or isn’t now Scott’s position, I, for one, would like to know, because then I’d likely bite for the $20/mo. Thanks.

Oh, I don’t want to forget to mention, I think you do a great job, especially for Lr.

Reply
guti2068

You are wrong. Samsung, htc, Nokia, LG, Sony, Nikon, Cannon all use the same type of workers. Ignorant people that fall for the media.

Reply
lvthunder

You never said any of that in your original post. And I disagree with your assertion that Apple wouldn’t be disadvantaged if they made their products here. All the sub components are made over there. I guess we will see because Apple is making the new Mac Pro here in the US. It’s in Texas I believe.

Reply
lvthunder

They have been teaching CS6 since it came out. Since nothing has changed with CS6 those video tutorials they made last year work just the same. They need to produce videos that show the new stuff to add to the collection of videos they offer.

As for Scott’s position I think he said he didn’t think the value was there for photographers not that the software wasn’t ready for prime time.

Reply
Janine Smith

I will subscribe to CC as soon as I find a reason to. Until then I’ll stick with CS6 and LR, which work perfectly fine for me, and are already paid for.

Reply
triptikkah

Gotta say, as a hobbyist, never probably means never. Photoshop was already crazy expensive. CC effectively raises the price even further, on a product that I use less and less as Lightroom improves.

Reply
Stephen Joseph

As an amateur I have been using Lightroom with Elements, Photomatix, and Perfect Effects. I was just considering converting to full blown Photoshop when recent change to CC brought that to an abrupt halt for the near future. I now plan to continue as is and wait and see.

Reply
Barney Koszalka

Like most semi-pros working in this field, I will continue to use CS6 until: the gap becomes too great; Adobe rolls out a model at an acceptable price point (hopefully), or; someone else fills the gap. Think about how IBM lost market share because they thought they were the dominant force in the 80’s and got lazy. Remember the New Coke fiasco? The iCloud model works well for the corporate clients, full time pros that use more than PS and, of course, illustrators. I don’t think for a second that Adobe is going to surrender the individual user (photographer) market share. They will find an acceptable price point for service compromise. Regarding the teaching pros, they have to adapt to the what their clients want and need to learn if they want people to keep reading their blogs. It’s a two-way street. Why would anyone follow a blog that is teaching them something they choose not to use?
Overall agree with you and point to the driver of market share–it is all about what the customer wants (or thinks they want!).

Reply
guti2068

I have CS6. I have moved my my workflow to Lightroom plus plug-ins. I have found that I don’t need CS6 98% of the time. I’m not a Pro so the latest CS is not a need. I can easily survive with CS6 until it obsolete. By then the Lightroom plug-ins will be better.

I hope they don’t move Lightroom to subscription base only.

Reply
Vanderheyden

Matt if I were a starting professional, going to the cloud might make sense, but as an amateur I cannot afford another monthly expense. Now being a LR and Elements user this does not affect me now, but if in the future Adobe decides to make all products subscription I will be forced to rethink my commitment to using their products. While professionals may set the pace in software development It is us Hobbyists and semi-pros who sustain them. I just wonder if Adobe is willing to abandon that lucrative a market.

Reply
Bill Caskey

I might subscribe to CC if the price was lower, say $10/mo. Even so, I wouldn’t like it. This is strictly a “strong arm” tactic by a monopoly.
Having said that, I will never say never, but I can certainly see why you guys at NAPP are on board with CC. It is, after all, your “bread and butter”.

Reply
CBWyatt

My plans are to use LR5 and CS6 and hope that in the future LR and OnOne and Nik will meet my needs as an amateur photographer. I like to see what the pros are using but that does not mean I need or want to do what they are. Needs vs Wants will be a question for everyone to make. My question for you Matt is how will this affect you, NAPP, and Kelby training? If more emphasis is on PS through CC and less on LR, then I will need to find other training sites. My last question is regarding your AT&T experience. Did you have better reception with the IPhone or not? My hope is that Adobe will have a separate subscription for photographers that will be only LR and PS and not the other parts of CC that I don’t use.

Reply
Matt Kloskowski

So…. Where did you read that there would be less training on Lightroom? We just released more Lightroom courses in the last month then ever before. Why would we abandon Adobes largest growing photo editing program. We love Lightroom!! 🙂

Reply
Shona Jaray

I have signed up for CC, I am comfortable with the concept and use other software on the same basis. However I am unhappy that I have to sign up for 12 months of monthly payments in a currency which is not my own. I live in New Zealand and have to sign up to pay in Australian Dollars. It would be OK if I could peg the exchange rate for the durations of the contract!

Reply
A.G. Photography

This is how its different:
1. I fully disagree with imitating something someone does: be original and do what’s best for you, not follow the crowd! Mooo
How many of Matt Kloskowski do we have? One!
2. This a creative field Matt. Golf is the same, and has the same rules! In photography rules are meant to be broken as photography is an ART! Each business wants a different logo, you don’t see Fedex taking UPS’ logo because they ship stuff too!

There are a lot of software developers out there, and PS is not the end all be all. I can have layers in Paint Shop Pro too! Its what you DO with the software that matters and not what the software can do for u! Kind of like Kennedy’s quote.

I teach my kids to be original, to wear what looks good on them and not someone else, and so on. “Imitation” is one of my biggest pet peeves.

“Here’s something else to think about. In all markets (not just photography), the so-called “Pros” tend to lead the trends right? It happens in golf, tennis, football, heck even in popular cooking shows on tv. We see some big-name golfer using a certain set of golf clubs and we go out and buy those clubs (or golf balls, or gloves, or tennis racquets, or pots and pans from your favorite cooking show… you get the idea). So is the photography/post-processing market any different?”

Reply
A.G. Photography

LOL! No Matt I don’t; I danced professionally before getting into photography and graphic design, so my time was 99% occupied with that. I never had the time to play, and only a few years ago I got to lift a real golf club and realize that I’ll never play real Golf ever as they really heavy! LOL But I am pretty outstanding at it on the Wii!

Reply
A.G. Photography

I think you guys are starting to realize how repetitive it can be to teach new versions with little differences between them.

Reply
Robert Gould

Hey Matt the only problem with pro athletes is that they are paid to use their equipment. i.e. Nike throws 20 million at me to use their clubs and for that kind of money I’d use chop-sticks!

Reply
Bob Harron

If a lot of non pros choose not to move to CC do you think it will cause a drop in attendance at Photoshop seminars if only CC is addressed?

Reply
DestructoTex

Matt-

Your premise is flawed. I’m a professional photoshop user and the cloud doesn’t make sense for me and I’m not upgrading to CC. I’ve upgraded faithfully from one version of Photoshop (and Illustrator and InDesign) to the newest since CS2. But aside from a few minor features, there’s not a whole lot of things Photoshop or any of those other pieces of software do that have made me alter my workflow – or really enhanced it much – in many versions. Oh, there have been new gimmicks and new filters built in, but have they been killer features like Smart Objects were, or the ability to use editable type on layers, or layers themselves? Not really. And the interface redesigns have driven me mad – especially the monkeying around with things such as the order of things in adjustment layers and blending modes. And don’t even get me started on how ugly the icons are in CS6…

But my rejection of Creative Cloud comes from life experience. I wasn’t always so successful, and I haven’t always been able to afford upgrades. notice above that I jumped on CS at version 2 from Photoshop 7. I’ve been in a place where the economy takes a downturn or clients pay especially slow (and usually especially on large jobs…) The creative industry can be very cyclical, especially when the work you’re doing is for corporations and ad agencies. During those down times I was just barely able pay the rent and buy food. Luckily, I had my design tools at my disposal to dig myself out and make what money I could. There was NO WAY I could’ve paid for a software subscription service. Under Creative Cloud, I would’ve had to cancel my subscription and then suddenly I would have had NO WAY to make money using the talents that I’ve spent years cultivating.

The creative business being what it is, I might very well be in that place again someday. I sure would like to have a permanent version of my design, illustration and image editing software on my computer that I can use to start over if I need to.

All this is to say that yes – in my case never DOES mean never. Design trends may change, and so will fads in effects used in design (which is primarily what Adobe is adding to new versions.) Those of use who used plug-ins or figured out how to do what we needed to do the “hard way” before Adobe added the automatic functionality will still be able to produce effective design using basic, sound design principles. Designers will still be able to design to a grid. Photographers will still be able to color correct their photos in an older version of Photoshop – perhaps not quite as easily or with as few clicks. But it can be done. All those of us who won’t be upgrading are foregoing are automatic features. Most things can still be done – many times in several different ways – the OLD way.

I hope I’ve stayed within the bounds of the discussion you’ve wanted to have here. I enjoy your work, and I’m looking forward to learning from you at PhotoshopWorld in Vegas in September. That, too, might be my last.

Reply
Tomislav

Exactly because of that reason I think that Adobe should make a tweak in their CC offer i.e. after you paid in monthly subscription some 130% of todays price of Photoshop if you decide to quit subscription you get to keep what you paid for – the current level of Photoshop without upgrades. If at some point you wish to upgrade your subscription counter is reset and you have to pay another 130% of standalone price to get the possibility to continue to use it after cancelling subscription (maybe a slight tweak would be that if after one month you realize you don’t like new improvements you could go back to older version).
If that was the case I think that biggest concern of users would go away and am guessing that Adobe would still do fine because most of the people would quite when they get to the chance to keep it but would keep on paying because they would get used to it.
Just my 2C

Reply
Michael Reeves

Hey Matt,
I like what you have to say here because it rings so true. I had an issue with the giant phone company too. When we got our first cell phones, we were with Cingular, which as you know is now the giant phone company.
My thing with this subscription thing is simply a curiosity. As you know I work at a Community College. We have had a subscription to where we could put the software on as many machines as possible, but a max of 25 could be running any program in the creative suite at a time. I am wondering how Adobe is going to handle this because I’m sure there are hundreds of schools across the US with the same situation. My Dean says this subscription idea will save us money in the long run, and beside Autodesk already uses a subscription service for their software.
See you in a bit over 6 weeks buddy!
Mike

Reply
lvthunder

It’s not just Autodesk, but Microsoft as well. Large corporations pay a subscription fee. They even did it with Office this year with Office 365.

With people wanting app store prices for their software you will see more and more subscription plans. It’s a lot easier to sell people something for $20/month then it is to sell something for $700. Yeah it sucks for the people who already bought in, but if you haven’t the monthly fee is so much cheaper.

Reply
DestructoTex

By the way, Matt. I had a similar AT&T experience. I swore after having AT&T in college that I would NEVER have them again. Then Cingular got bought by AT&T and I’m with them again (and still.)

Reply
aeolist

Never is never never.

I figured out that I probably paid about $10 to $15 a month over the last decade on Photoshop given the original purchase price and upgrades with each new version. Lightroom is obviously over and above that. Although I’m not wild about the subscription model I’ll probably give CC a try while it’s just $10 per month but I’m not sure that it will be worth $20 a month without a lot more there. And I won’t be deleting my copy of CS6 any time soon.

And for what it’s worth since I’m mostly a landscape, nature and travel shooter I think Elements is a viable alternative even for a pro if you include the use of all the plugins you’d be buying anyway. Yes I already own Elements and have used it a bit. If I was heavily into compositing or graphics I’d feel otherwise.

Reply
John Havord

Time is a great healer and I think a lot of peoples never will be like my hangover never………. I’m never drinking again……… until the next time 🙂

Reply
Vanderheyden

At recent seminar in NYC about LR, co-hosted by Kelby, when the Adobe representative mentioned that LR was also available by subscription there was a loud chorus of boos by the attendees

Reply
Ross Bannister

I didn’t mean to upset Matt but just thought I should share my observation that the Kelby guys did not show ANY sympathy to a large proportion to their fans.

Reply
Geof Evans

Never say never – I have, SONY got on my wrong side ten years ago . Then I swore to myself that I would never look at their products – I hold on to that till this day

Reply
Tim Ford

I pay $10/mo for Spotify Premium, $10/mo for X Box Live, roughly $10/mo for Netflix streaming, $10/mo for Hulu Plus…subscription based services are everywhere. Paying $10/mo (or even $20) to use Photoshop CC isn’t the end of the world. My guess is that in a couple of years nobody will even think twice about it. So I’d say “never” means “never” in 2013, but probably not in 2015 or 2016.

Reply
Dennis Zito

Hi Matt,

I view this whole thing as Car Insurance. You need it and you pay for your coverage, which can vary from year to year. If you don’t buy it … not a big deal until you get caught and them need to get it at a higher price; or you can look for other alternatives. I have the one program only CC. It works for me … I don’t need all the other programs. My first year of CC is $9.99 an month. I can afford that now. If my situation changes, then I’ll have to make a decision. I’m 73 and retired, and just learned how to use a fraction of PS, I don’t need all the other stuff. I really like the LR/PS for Photographer scenario! That would be awesome!

Dennis

Reply
DeeplyBuried

I think you’re right, Matt; I think there are lots of amateur and semi-professional photographers who didn’t really *need* Photoshop, but used it because that’s what all the professionals used (and because of NAPP, PhotoshopUserTV, various podcasts, etc.). Adobe could have capitalized on that much larger market by making Photoshop more accessible/affordable, but instead chose to go the opposite route. Now all those folks are either actively seeking alternatives or are learning that they can get by without Photoshop just fine. I’m guessing for the vast majority of those people, myself included, yes, never actually does mean never.

Reply
Francie Van Aken Stoutamire

Under the current business model never does mean never. I can afford it, I am just not interested in going from owning my software, to paying more to rent it.
I am retired, with 35 years in the computer data industry, the last 15 of which also included web development and graphic design. As an enthusiastic amateur photographer, and also a volunteer graphic designer for local groups, CS6 and LR5 are all that I need. I have followed you guys, and purchased for work and personal use Adobe and Kelby products for over 13 years. I have not renewed my Kelby Training subscription and I will not renew my long time NAPP membership as you understandably must focus on the CC.
I have recently found that, in contrast to a few years ago, there are now quite a few other really terrific sites that provide affordable and outstanding training.
As for long term, I can see a time down the line in which I will need just PS and LR. At that point, given there are some excellent add-ons available for Elements, and based on what the Adobe purchasing model is for LR and Elements, I will consider shifting to Elements plus LR.
I am but one of many hobbyists, so I realize my voice does not carry any weight. I do want to thank you guys, I have learned so much over the years, and am grateful for that, and wish you all the best in the future.

Reply
Malcolm Sales

Hi Matt,
As a professional photographer I find Lightroom give me 90% of my image editing needs. Elements 11 fills the gap when Layers are essential.
So for me Never is indeed never, I’m also certain that Elements 12 will fill any missing gaps.
For me the problem with the subscription model is being locked into Adobe’s pricing structure, and here in the UK they are not noted for recognising real world exchange rates.

Reply
Blaine Muzyka

I must be one of the very few who actually like the Subscription Model. Of course, I also contacted Adobe, and found out that if you have School aged Children, you are Eligible for the Student and Teacher Rate. So, I am currently only paying $20/month for the entire suite, which is actually a pretty reasonable price for me.

Reply
Sharon B

This is an interesting question. I suspect the answers recieved will reveal the respondants personality as being either stubborn or open minded. Thats on only the 10-15% who actually answered your question. I can’t imagine closing the door on anything in the future for something that makes you unhappy in the present. I have certainly have had my share of big companies making me angry, actually small businesses also, to be fair about it. I would never hold an iron clad grudge against the business. They are the company and we are the consumer. They make the product and we can choose yes or no. Things change and we can adapt or not.
So Matt my answer is “I would never say “never”. Hmmm does that make sense?

Reply
Francesco D'Amico

And the thrill, what about the thrill? My internal clock starts ticking the day after opening day, after about 13 months I wake up in the middle of the night and think, “yes it’s coming soon!” Then there’s the public beta which I have the discipline to stay away from because I am a thrill junkie. Then the day comes and I know next month when the credit card bill comes I’ll have some explaining to do. The new version, the books, the videos, the memberships. What’s the plan for all that? I don’t know, It’s like taking a sip from your can of beer every month. You can’t let out a room shaking belch after one sip of beer a month. I just don’t get it!

Reply
Donald Macaulay

There’s a few little features that are beginning to appear in CC that really have me tempted (Camera RAW as a filter…oh yes).

I’ve gone from a “never” to a “mmmmmmmaybe”.

Reply
sey rosen

I think we’re all missing something here. All the photography folk who are anti-CC, for whatever reason, are discovering a whole new plethora of alternatives. I personally am using Elements 11/Lr5 combo with a few onOne & TopazLabs plugins. I’ve been a Lightroom user since v.2 and Elements 8, whilst having used Photoshop from CS 3 thru 6. Today, ALL the Creative Suite Photoshop has been uninstalled/erased/deleted/obliterated from my computer. As a PHOTOGRAPHER I simply don’t need a program that, at best, I would use maybe 5%of it’s potential and that 5% potential in maybe 2% of my workflow.

In my quest for a Ps alternative I discovered ElementsXXL, a plug in that adds many, many Ps functions to Elements. So now I have an Elements suite which is pretty darn close to a full Ps and serves my photographic needs to the full.

My point being, that when push came to shove, a couple of hours on the web gave me an affordable, totally compatible solution to fill my needs. If in time
Adobe pull another CC-only stunt with Elements and/or Lr, by then there will be even more usable solutions and ‘never again CS’ will simply become ‘never again Adobe’.

Oooops, forgot to mention, I use Matt’s freebees too! 😀

Reply
Matt Kloskowski

Yes, but what are you going to do when you can’t find training on using all of those programs together. There’s nowhere near the amount of training on Elements as there is Photoshop. Regardless of what you “need”, Photoshop is what the pros use and it’s where the training seems to emanate from. I’m not saying you’re wrong in using those programs. I actually think you’re quite right – most people can make out just fine using those programs. I know I do many times 🙂 Thanks!

Reply
triptikkah

If you’re getting training less for click-by-click recipes for certain effects than for big-picture ideas, I’ve found that a lot of the online training actually translates pretty well to other programs with similar features. For example, the fundamentals of how layers, masks, blending modes, and so on work doesn’t really change from one program to another.

Kinda the same as hearing people talk about some special setting on their Canon and then digging through the menus on your Nikon/Olympus/whatever to find the equivalent option. 😉

Reply
Lonnie Ross Dillon

The problem with CC is that it assumes that I can afford to upgrade every version because that’s the only way the cost model makes sense. First, I always skip versions, partly because the upgrades are less “wow” to me and because it’s too expensive. The other big reason is if I do find myself in financial straights and can’t afford the subscription even briefly, I lose all access to the software. Never means never…unless Adobe can work in a perpetual license model in there somewhere.

Reply
Matt Kloskowski

Ha! You’re right Chris! And I’m not normally the controversial writer. I’d rather talk photography, lightroom and photoshop and keep it light hearted. But I honestly did wonder about this. Luckily, most people kept it from becoming too much of a bash-fest and answered the question I was wondering so all is well.

Reply
Chris

Well Matt, I’m sorry to say that I’m going to be a Never person. I don’t see the value in subscribing for many years, outlaying thousands of dollars and then ending up with nothing if my financial position makes it impossible to continue the subscription.

Reply
Bp

So Matt what is your reaction or comment with those who have responded…there still seems like a lot negative heat. I proposed this to Scott K.:Can you as part of NAPP but a “team discount” from adobe and pass on the savings if any to those who join your organization?

My opinion if the price were a lot lower($10 to $20 perpetually fixed price for the whole suite) especially for us customers who’ve been with adobe for 15 plus years id give it some thought

Reply
Paul Collingridge

Great wisdom, from Matty K, the photo-sage. They don’t use the epithet “Guru” for no reason when describing you. Many of us need very little more than LR for the bulk of what we do, but we *do* need that extra something (maybe text, maybe layers, maybe better healing). Once we know what we want we can explore the choices and decide on what we are prepared to pay. Maybe the uproar is because, just like the amateurs who love to buy D800’s and D4’s, too many photographers have defaulted to “the best” (there is little doubt that PSCC is the best all round). I’m sure you are right, as our photography grows & matures, or our profits rise & fall and our ambition changes we need to revisit our old choices. The old adage “Look before you leap” still applies wherever along the journey we are. If PS was a static, never evolving product then life would be easy, but PS changes with the industry & the state of photography, and so do I. Maybe other products will evolve along the same road as me; so I plan to keep my options open….. I’m just beginning to explore video, if that takes off it is another opportunity to stop and look before I leap. Have a good day!

Reply
Bob

In my day job, I am a consultant and train people about quality
and the customer experience. Adobe has
the right to change their business model any time they choose. What they don’t
have a right to expect is that their customers will like their decisions. “Customer
Experience” is something that best-in-class companies shoot for in their
business model. The reasons are obvious.
Have a great product and make it easy for your customers to do business with
you (this includes such things as pricing, quality, warranty) and people will
come flocking to your doors. The Photoshop business model at Adobe was not
broken. Customers were not beating on their doors to develop a new model. Economic reasons drove Adobe’s decision.

I value my relationships with great suppliers. I am dedicated to my suppliers and spend my
time and money investing in them. I have been a happy, long time, (since Version
2 in 1991 with upgrades every 18 months) satisfied buyer of Adobe products
until now. Until Adobe fixes this bad
Customer Experience, I will no longer support them in word or action.

At least I now have a current example to use in my classes
of what not to do if having an excellent customer experience is your goal. I promise to use it in every class.

Reply
Tomislav

Matt,

not directly a comment but I was hoping that you could maybe shed some light for me on the situation with the prices.

As far as I understand now with the CC you download Adobes software directly from their servers and you get no box, no DVD. You simply download it directly from the servers. And it is probably the same server no matter from where are you downloading it, be it USA, Europe, Japan…

But how come that exactly the same product, delivered in same manner, from same place costs 69$/mo per user (team license) and in Croatia it costs around 114$/mo?

Even without taxes price is around 91$/mo.

Do you maybe have some info why I wouldn’t be able to buy license directly from Adobe and thus get the software considerably cheaper?

For companies it maybe makes sense to buy it from an authorized reseller for some tax exemption but for some amateur photographer not really.

Regards,
Tomislav

Reply
Tomislav

After chatting with Adobe support and emails from authorized reseller for Adobe here in Croatia I found out that currently I can only buy Team licenses for CC and that for 114$/mo and I have to pay for the whole year up front (around 1360 $). So being an amateur CC is off my list in foreseeable future.

Reply
Steven Booker

I will never subscribe to CC.
Yes, for me never was about 2 months.
I subscribed and all is well.

Reply
Christopher Eaton

As a professional, never probably means someday with CC, but I won’t like it; so, for now, CS6 is fine. But, I think I can say never if other software companies jump on the bandwagon and try to rent us the software (and, let’s be honest, that is what it is… rent). How many times a month can we be dinged a fee? We would be nickled and dimed out of business as the rent adds up; and, the enthusiast photographer would just plain go elsewhere (as many of them are).

You make a good point on what the pros will do and how long it would likely take most competitors to build a Photoshop killer… But, Adobe should never say never about a competitor knocking them off their throne, at least in the photography world. For example, if Nik + Google choose to take a large segment of the photography software market, Google has the resources to build a Photoshop killer faster than most… especially, if they focus in the beginning only on what photographers need and forget about all the features that designers and illustrators need (they can get that segment with version 2 or 3).

So, I cannot say never ever, but neither should Adobe… the CC model has put them in a precarious position where they are now a potential big target and a lot of people wanting to take a shot.

Reply
Stan Burman

Adobe has become the Darth Vader of image editing. I don’t see how they could ever regain my trust. There are alternatives. And it’s difficult to believe that a company could do such a splendid job of antagonizing its customers. I, for one, don’t believe that I’ll be going to “the other side.”

Reply
Chris Seubert

I will admit that I’m an amateur at best, and CS6 was the first full blown PS that I ever got. That was probably 6 months ago and I think I’ve used it less than 10 times, and most of that was just because I wanted to, not because I needed to. I am in no way against subscription models, but at this time, CC makes no sense for me from a financial point of view. I actually DO think I would go to Elements if for some reason CS6 dies or if Elements gets some sort of killer feature.

As for training, the reality is, people can figure out these programs on their own, especially if they are doing simple touch-ups like most amateurs are doing. While it may make life easier and faster, it is not something that is requires for the bulk of people that use and edit photos today.

Reply
Nick Marzinski

The day after Adobe announced, I pounded out my thoughts on the whole CC thing (which can be found here: http://bit.ly/13Ip3pk) and my views since that posting haven’t changed. The short version: Right now, never means “I’ll wait and see what Adobe (or another suiter) comes up with.” I’ve never been big on early adoption (still don’t own a smartphone, in fact), so jumping on board just to have the latest and greatest isn’t a compelling reason for me. In the meantime, my copy of CS6 meets my needs.

Reply
Robert Qvist

I said to myself a couple years ago that I would NEVER EVER buy an android phone because I love the iOS and the iPhone… and today I own a Galaxy Nexus which I LOVE! So, everyone can chance 😉 As for the CC subscription… I think it’s a really great thing but I also think that it’s a lot of money for an unemployed guy like me 🙁 But soon!!

Reply
Gavin Isaacs

I was not overly impressed with Adobe’s new business model, but never rushed into any final opinion. I think never is a long time. While I think the new CC is great for those who don’t own Photoshop and for users of the entire range of products. It pretty much sucks in terms of value for CS6 owners and photographers that do not make a income from photography. For me the $10 deal for a year is a slap in the face. I use LR 4.4 and CS6. There are no features in CC that I need or want. So I will wait and see. If Adobe would offer a fair priced deal I will considerate when the time comes. In a year or two who knows what might be available. So in effect my main disappointment is that Adobe has found a way to increase the cost of CC by 20-30%, all wrapped up in creative marketing.

Reply
Moises Cruz

If Adobe thinks they will make more money from ( like you put it ) PROs more power to them. Realistically consumer out purchase Photoshop software than PROs. You surround yourself with other “PROs” rubbing elbows. Blowing smoke up each others butts thinking everyone else is on the elitist boat like you. It’s AMAZING how the photography industry have become hustlers, product pimps. Nickle and dime here nickle and dime there. How can you look in your childrens eyes and not be concerned with KARMA ???? One thing I know Matt KARMA always gets us where we least expect and where it hurts the most…..

Reply
pompanonic

Not me or most of the pro I know in fact of allthe newspapers who supply photoshop are still using CS4…I got CS6 but it will be the last one…I really am enjoying LR5 and all the plugins for it….people in the photojournalism business do not need layers and all the other things the photoshop can do for you…I wa nice to stay ahead of the game and say you had the latest….but LR has taken over for me…thanks for all you do..

Reply
Karl Rottmann

As an enthusiast I’ve never been able to justify spending 1k+ on Photoshop CS6, 20$/month allows me to always stay current not have to worry about spending 1k unexpectedly. I figure many people are upset because this change to CC eliminates piracy. I hope that CC enable Adobe for more innovation. I’m looking forward to lower prices as people realize it is not a big deal and join more. I would like to see a Photoshop+LR $25/month bundle. No brainer for me.

Reply
Shawn T. Moore

Pixelmator (not bad for 20$) it hit a half million downloads the first week adobe announced the Adobe CC subscription service. Photoshop has been the only real answer for pros for 20+ years and that’s been quite a run for a software company. While me like many were angered by the subscription plan, I will subscribe because work pays for it. I think it’s different for many Napp member’s because many are advanced amateurs and it is a monthly luxury. I am sure as soon as some alternative come close PSD many will bail on PSD. I don’t think Adobe is the loved company they were a year ago.

We use to get so excited about the next version of Photoshop. No one is excited this time around. And the new CC feature are not as groundbreaking as in previous releases.

Old dinosaurs rarely see their extinction coming!

I am still annoyed at Adobe but no longer Angry.

Have you seen the Petition on Change.org

http://goo.gl/c15c2

Reply
Guest

For me there was never, a
“never.”

While I am an experienced albeit amateur / hobbyist visual
artist, photographer, designer (Graphics Design pay the bills –
photography my passion) –
with that familiar dream of making it to
the Pros on my own (or a field related office in Oldsmar. I never really understood the extreme
views and hateful narrative one way or the blind Adobe support the other
way. I
think I’m falling into the old debate by continuing. While I
genuinely do admire those that take a stand
for moral / ethical reasons as well as
sympathy for those that would like to subscribe to CC but
can’t afford the subscription fee as their budget allows
for perhaps an every other release upgrade cycle – the reality is that Adobe has
many times more Photoshop users
because of CC and the subscription based service.
Adobe’s common stock value on August 2, 2012 was $30.58 a share – August 2,
2013 it is 47.45 – Adobe is not losing
money with it’s subscription plan – it’s a tried
and true formula almost (Almost) like the give
away the razor, sell the blades mantra.
Subscription plans simply work for the masses.
(btw; No, I don’t own Adobe stock – but wish I
had 2 years ago! I digress.)
But… A few points from my humble world; I
have friends with hobbies and leisure time activities
ranging from Moto-Cross, Mountain Climbing, Downhill Skiing,
Music Collecting, Attending Yankees home games every season (ok, he’s not well
– ;-> ), “Theater Night,” etc., etc.
Now having only dabbled in a few of those activities – I
have no idea what it costs a year, but having gone to a few
– the gas to the event and home covered 1 month of a full Adobe CC membership. So, as
mentioned – my hobby as a photographer is not going to
die and I am fond of Adobe software and integration of
their suite. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t
buy the better mousetrap if it came along. But for me,
right now, Adobe Apps are fun, my hobby and
potentially a future, supplemental source of income. Fact is, I spent far more on film and
processing 9 years ago than I do now with digital
files and digital processing while yielding far more
control over my own shots, far better
and far more numerous “keepers.” So,
again – for me the cost is easily justified, even
as a hobbyist.

Heck, Just Friday (8/2/13) I spent $79 bucks for a seminar ticket, $24
bucks on gas, $11 bucks for parking, $18 bucks on Starbucks coffee and a
sandwich and $8 bucks for a quick “dinner”
at Mc’ds (although the price is much
higher, I can’t measure that in monetary units) –
all to see Matt Kloskowski in
Hartford, CT to teach Lightoom, a program which
I know quiet well, BUT, still
learned some great tips and features! Alt/Opt on White/Black to see first
incidence of white/black in an image…
How did I miss that? And, got to enjoy
some time indulging my hobby with a
parting fist bump
from Matt! The day was a blast and
the attendees were all murmuring
about Lr and what they learned in such quick fashion.
There’s a point in there somewhere.

Thanks so much
Matt! It was
an educational, insightful
fun day!

…I told my Mom I would
never do a lot of things in the past, with the exception
of my boycott of liver and onions after the dinner table
incident of 1979 – I’ve rescinded many “Never’s” 😉
Now, maybe tonight I’ll “rent” 1 2 hour long movie on demand to relax –
sure beats the days when I used to go buy a VHS for $50.00 to watch
once… Well until Blockbuster hit the scene back in the day allowing
the flexibility of renting! 😉

Reply
Doug Evans

For me there was never, a “never.”

While I am an experienced albeit amateur / hobbyist visual artist, photographer, designer (Graphics Design pay the bills – photography my passion) – with that familiar dream of making it to the Pros on my own (or a field related office in Oldsmar!) 😉 I really did not understand the extreme views and harsh narrative one way or the blind Adobe support the other way. I think I’m falling into the old debate by continuing. While I genuinely do admire those that take a stand for moral / ethical reasons as well as sympathy for those that would like to subscribe to CC but can’t afford the subscription fee as their budget allows for perhaps an every other release upgrade cycle – the reality is that Adobe has many times more Photoshop users because of CC and the subscription based service. Adobe’s common stock value on August 2, 2012 was $30.58 a share – August 2, 2013 it is $47.45 – Adobe is not losing money with it’s subscription plan – it’s a tried and true formula almost (Almost) like the give away the razor, sell the blades mantra. Subscription plans simply work for the masses. (btw; No, I don’t own Adobe stock – but wish I had 2 years ago! I digress.) But… A few points from my humble world; I have friends with hobbies and leisure time activities ranging from Moto-Cross, Mountain Climbing, Downhill Skiing, Music Collecting, Attending Yankees home games every season (ok, he’s not well – ;-> ), “Theater Night,” etc., etc. Now having only dabbled in a few of those activities – I have no idea what it costs a year, but having gone to a few – the gas to the event and home covered 1 month of a full Adobe CC membership. So, as mentioned – my hobby as a photographer is not going to die and I am fond of Adobe software and integration of their suite. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t buy the better mousetrap if it came along. But for me, right now, Adobe Apps are fun, my hobby and potentially a future, supplemental source of income. Fact is, I spent far more on film and processing 9 years ago than I do now with digital files and digital processing while yielding far more control over my own shots, far better and far more numerous “keepers.” So, again – for me the cost is easily justified, even as a hobbyist.

Heck, Just Friday (02Aug13) I spent $79 bucks for a seminar ticket, $24 bucks on gas, $11 bucks for parking, $18 bucks on Starbucks coffee and a sandwich and $8 bucks for a quick “dinner” at Mc’ds (although the price is much higher, I can’t measure that in monetary units) – all to see Matt Kloskowski in Hartford, CT to teach Lightoom, a program which I know quiet well, BUT, still learned some great tips and features! Alt/Opt on White/Black to see first incidence of white/black in an image… How did I miss that? And, got to enjoy some time indulging my hobby with a parting fist bump from Matt! The day was a blast and the attendees were all murmuring about Lr and what they learned in such quick fashion. There’s a point in there somewhere.

Thanks so much Matt! It was an educational, insightful fun day… Surprised how fast it went by!

…I told my Mom I would never do a lot of things in the past, with the exception of my boycott of liver and onions after the dinner table incident of 1979 – I’ve rescinded many “Never’s” 😉 Now, maybe tonight I’ll “rent” 1 2 hour long movie on demand to relax – sure beats the days when I used to go buy a VHS for $50.00 to watch once… Well until Blockbuster hit the scene back in the day allowing the flexibility of renting! 😉

Reply
Bp

Yes but here is something interesting:

Adobe CFO Mike Garrett and Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen dumps Adobe stock!

Adobe Systems Inc. ( ADBE ): EVP, CFO and Assistant Secretary Mark Garrett Sold 232,276 Shares

EVP, CFO and Assistant Secretary Mark Garrett sold 232,276 shares of ADBE stock on 06/21/2013 at the average price of $44.95. Mark Garrett owns at least 117,847 shares after this. The price of the stock has decreased by 0.4% since.

Adobe Systems Inc was originally incorporated in California in October 1983 and was reincorporated in Delaware in May 1997. Adobe Systems Inc has a market cap of $22.53 billion; its shares were traded at around $44.77 with a P/E ratio of 31.75 and P/S ratio of 5.33. Adobe Systems Inc had an annual average earnings growth of 13.8% over the past 10 years. GuruFocus rated Adobe Systems Inc the business predictability rank of 3.5-star .

Adobe Systems Inc. reported second quarter 2013 income of $76.5 million ($0.15 per share), compared to $223.9 million ($0.45 per share) in the prior year quarter. Second quarter revenue was $1.01 billion, down from the $1.12 billion reported last year.

President and CEO Shantanu Narayen sold 50,000 shares of ADBE stock on 06/20/2013 at the average price of $44.85.

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/

Reply
MarkJH

I question Matt’s premise that most professionals gravitate to cutting-edge tools or technology.

Of course there are a few big names that undoubtably do; but these artists tend to be sponsored, no? I’m sure McNally loves the latest Nikon gear and would use it regardless, but it can’t hurt that Nikon also pays him to do so.

The professional artists I know tend to be less interested in the latest technology or gear, in of itself, and more interested in the latest processes or results. They’re not interested in shooting a D4 or buying Adobe CC per se; they’re interested in producing original, interesting, innovative work *however* it gets done. Sometimes that might involve the latest technology, but just as often (more often?) it doesn’t.

Also, if they find something that “works”, something that really defines their style in an original, marketable direction, they stick with it.

As an example of these two forces at work, consider the hotness of film photography right now in some markets. Folks talking technology on blogs like this can barely remember the “film era,” but if you go to WPPI or have read any style / fashion / bridal print in the past five years, you can’t avoid guys like Jose Villa, who are getting published everywhere and shooting gorgeous, original, stunning five-figure wedding commissions with fifteen year-old Contax 645s, Fuji pro 400H, and Fuji Frontier scanners from the 80s. Adobe’s latest tech just doesn’t figure much into those workflows; but in terms of creative style, they very much define the “cutting edge.”

So if you ask me, this Adobe’s real problem. Creative professionals follow art, not technology. They’re interested in results, not tools, and they find interesting means to push the state of the art that aren’t necessarily aligned with Adobe’s corporate interests or feature release schedule. Folks who really follow the pros follow the style; the tools they buy derive from that. It’s not “I shoot Nikon because McNally does.” It’s “I shoot Nikon because I want to use McNally’s workflow to get similar results.”

I guess my non-judgmental, moderate message to Adobe might be this: underestimate or condescend to creative people at your peril. It only takes one innovative portfolio, one amazing ad campaign, one viral photograph to spin the whole industry’s momentum in completely unprecedented directions.

And Matt, if you’re thinking about what to teach in the future, that’d be my suggestion to you: follow or define original style trends and talk about how they’re done, regardless whether Adobe sponsors the tool set.

Reply
Danelle J

Matt, When I say I “never” will go to a particular vendor or buy a particular product, I mean it. There have been several companies that I will never deal with again. There are products I will never purchase again. I meant it and I mean it!

There are thousands of people who can not or will not go to the cloud… they mean it! I mean it! I will never go to the cloud and pay a subscription fee every month.

You and lots of other “teachers” make your money helping, guiding, tutoring, inspiring and showing thousands and thousands of non-pro photographers to improve and enjoy photography and making our photos something that we can be proud of.

You are smart and, YES, you should remember all of the rest of us non-pro non-cloud users and still educate and inspire us using the older versions or alternatives or we will find someone else who will.

Photoshop Elements is a good alternative and I am about to buy Corel’s newest version of paintshop pro x6. After all, they have been in this game for awhile and this is a big opportunity for another “player”.

Just a thought…

Reply
Joseph

Nicely don Matt – I think folks you can see the level of importance to Matt withMatt not responding to only one comment – Oh, Matt please do more post-pros of your landscape imates – for both LR and Photoshop programs owners.

Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *