I realize I started this with a very click-baity headline, but let me explain. I recently wrote about my hard drive configuration and it got a lot of comments. I could have written about the most amazing composition tip in the world and it would have only received half the traffic. But people love their hard drives for some reason. Anyway, in that article I talked about backup, and a number of people felt that my backup process is somewhat undisciplined.
I realized that compared to many of you reading, it is. Later that week, I was chatting with my buddy, Brian Matiash, about why I don’t really care that much if I lost all of my raw files. He agreed with me, and we both felt that some people may actually take this process more seriously than actually doing what it takes to make great photography. So I thought I’d write a little more.
NOTE: I often will ask you not to try to convince me otherwise because I’m happy with my approach. In this case, I have nothing to lose if you convince me otherwise – so have at it in the comments below! 😉
Let Me Explain
First, I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU NOT TO BACKUP YOUR PHOTOS. Please don’t read this post like that. And I am not saying I don’t backup my raw photos. If you take any actionable step from this post, it would be from reading the “Why I Don’t Care” paragraph below.
Next… my raw photos are indeed backed up. If I come back from a shoot they are loaded on to my main hard drive, and I immediately make sure I have a backup on to my backup drive. (read previous post if you’ve got questions on this). However, from that point on, on a normal every day basis, I’m not super disciplined about keeping my backup drive up to date with edits, deletes, etc… that may have happened since the last backup.
Again, if I load new photos on to the drive, I definitely do make a backup right away. But that doesn’t happen that much because I don’t shoot as much as you probably think I do (I have a website/business to run).
As for editing, and saving any new derivative files (PSD, TIFFs, etc…) that may result… well I also think you may think I edit more than I do. If I go on a morning shoot, I’m probably not coming back with any more than 2-3 decent photos. As blog reader Jeff called it… I am a Ruthless Editor. I want less photos not more. Out of those photos, I probably only spend 1-2 minutes editing any of them. At this point in my photography, if a photo needs more than 2 minutes I generally abandon it as I feel like I failed. So if I did lose that small amount of editing… eh well… I’ll redo it. OR… I won’t even have the need to, as you’ll read next.
Why I Don’t Care
In that article, I didn’t mention the NUMBER ONE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT MY PHOTO BACKUP PROCESS. A very simple thing that I do that helps me care less about the original raw photo.
After I edit a photo that I care about, I immediately save it as a full quality JPG. I have a “Portfolio” folder that I put all of those JPGs into. Right now, it’s got over 500 photos in it from over the years. That folder is backed up in every way possible. Google photos, Amazon Photos, Dropbox, my backup drives, and Blackblaze. If a huge catastrophe happened, I’d be able to get to that folder in some way. And that folder has the only photos I care about.
So if I lost all of my raw photos, I would still have all of my most important photos in that folder and I’d be able to retrieve them. What more do I need? I have full quality JPGs. I can print them if I want. And I can post them anywhere. I can make a book or a calendar. (remember, raw photos are useless to anyone or any website, but us photographers)
SIDENOTE: Please don’t overthink this “Portfolio” folder. I don’t care where it is on my computer (as long as it’s backed up). I don’t care what the color space is, or the ppi, or the keywords, or the metadata or the whatever. When I save the JPG, I choose “High Quality” and that’s it. I’m done. There is no reason to read any more in to this. It’s a high quality JPG and it will serve ANY purpose I have for it, regardless of the color space, metadata and all of the other stuff that has nothing to do with the way the photo looks.
But… I’m Sure There’s a But…
At this point, I think will be a lot of “But… what if” questions back to me, so let me get those out of the way.
But… what if you needed your original raw photo for a client, print, etc…?
I wouldn’t. I can’t think of a reason (for me personally) that I’d need it again. I don’t have clients. If I needed to make a print for myself I could make it from my JPG. And I don’t do any print sales where I’d have to go back and re-edit it. I’m not in the business of selling photos and I turn down 100% of print requests, because it’s too time consuming.
But… what if better editing technology comes out and you need your raw photo?
If I went as far to keep a photo, edit it, save it as a JPG, then I’m happy with it. I don’t need better editing technology.
Editing technology doesn’t make a bad photo good. Period!
So many people say they save old photos hoping that editing technology improves. My personal feeling is that if the photo wasn’t spectacular before that editing feature came out, it won’t be now. And if it was spectacular, editing wasn’t the reason why, and it would have already won all of its awards and received its many accolades.
I’ve had many people send me photos from 20 years ago, saying how much better editing is today and showing me comparisons. I hate to sound harsh, but I’d say 9.5 times out of 10, I see a photo that should have been deleted 20 years ago, as editing was not the answer.
Put simply… you do not “Save” a bad photo with Photo Editing. You finish off an already great photo with photo editing. And if it was an already great photo, it will be no matter what editing technology comes out or not.
BUT… what if you enter a contest and they demand a raw file?
I don’t enter contests. I guess one day if I ever do, then maybe I’d regret it.
BUT… maybe there was a hidden gem in those raw files that you missed the first time?
There’s not 🙂
BUT… sometimes it’s fun to look through old photo shoots. You never know what you’ll find?
I absolutely agree. And that’s where my click-bait headline falls apart. To say “I wouldn’t care” is actually not correct. I would care… a little. But it would not be as disastrous as it sounds because I do have the favorite photos of my lifetime saved in one spot – and please give me a reason why I would need anything else.
But… But.. This is Ludicrous to Say! I’m Sorry, I Can’t Condone This!
I realize this is very hard for a lot of you to hear. But I’m just being real with you about how I choose to spend my photography/computer time and money. My photography is not worth anything to anyone besides me. There are thousands of better photographers than me in the world.
I’m not a legendary photographer and I don’t take legendary photos. I’ve got the same photos as many of you have – landscapes and travel photos – in the now most Instagrammable places on earth. The places I have photos of, there are thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of better photos of those places than what I have. Same goes for wildlife. While I love my photos, it’s a bird, monkey, bear, tree frog, or whatever. Millions of them exist in the world, and many are better than mine.
Ouch… That Hurts!
I promise I’m not being deliberately self deprecating here. I’m just being real with myself and I think Self awareness is really important. My photography is good. And it may sometimes even border on being great. But good or great don’t cut it for anything else but my personal portfolio these days.
Here’s an example… I posted some Alaska bear photos a few weeks ago. I received many comments and even some personal messages from people telling me they were outstanding and I needed to do something else with them. But there were 12 other people with me who all had similar photos. Trust me, we all showed our photos to each other at times, and regardless of whatever great image I thought I had, at least 6 other people had it too. Now, that was just one week in one place to photograph bears. Tens of Thousands of people come to that location. And imagine the numbers that go to other places. See what I’m getting at? They are indeed great photos. But I’m not the only one with those photos. Great Photography is mostly a commodity these days. And that’s okay as long as you’re honest with yourself about why you love photography.
Now, If I had something I thought was “exceptionally extraordinary” then maybe I’d take more precautions. But the perceived value of wonderful photography is the lowest it’s ever been in our lives. I don’t say this to be negative or bring you down. I know from surveys and talking to you, that most of you only take photos for you. So, as a hobbyist photographer, if you take photos thinking they’re valuable to anyone but you, I think you’re not being honest with yourself. I’m sure your friends and family are happy to look at them on social media and your camera club friends are happy to critique them in a meeting. But don’t mistake that none of them would care if you lost all of your raw files.
Matt… This is 100% Reckless to Write! Raw files are Important!
Ok everyone, I’m going to wrap this up by saying that I take backing up my photos and my computer (mostly) seriously. I don’t want you to think I’m telling you not to backup.
I don’t want to lose all of my raw files. But, honestly, I don’t know why. They’re more of a burden than anything. They take up a lot of space. I have folders I haven’t looked through in 10 years and don’t plan to. And if something were to happen to me, I’d just pass this burden on to my family.
Trust me, I sadly get emails every so often from a family member of some one who followed me. They are stuck with tens of thousands of photos that they don’t know what to do with. They ask me if I can go through them for the family or if there’s a service that does it (I don’t know of any).
So I don’t totally know why I save my raw files, but for some reason, I just don’t want to lose them. So I spend time and money every month backing them up. And I’m not in any way telling anyone they shouldn’t.
My Goal
I always try to take some of the seriousness away from people who don’t rely on photography for their livelihood. It’s okay to take photography seriously, so don’t misunderstand me. I’m a hobbyist golfer, but I take it seriously sometimes. But I often think people take every other part of photography EXCEPT ACTUALLY TAKING GREAT PHOTOS, too seriously. And they lose sight of the fun and important part of it. The final photo is ALL that matters! Which is where my “Portfolio” folder comes in to play – that’s all I really care about.
Sadly, many of the people reading this take all of the other aspects of photography more serious than the process of actually trying to make a wonderful photo, which is evidenced by my most popular post of the year being about hard drives.
When I posted about my hard drives, I had so many people write me and thank me for showing a fairly simple solution – because they go to their camera clubs, or read online, and are made to feel like they’re lacking in some way because other people have these really complicated systems.
So I’m always going to be the guy that goes against the seriousness and “life and death” nature, that hobbyist photographers sometimes try to push on people. That’s it.
I just want you to have fun. If fun for you is dealing with hard drives, RAID, NAS, and having 30 plug-ins to complete one photo. Go for it. But I know for many of you, the fun part is getting out and shooting and editing. And I’m always going to try to help you be better and have more fun with that, over everything else. Enjoy!
I love teaching and photography... In that order. I feel that enjoying photography, and photo editing can get WAY too complicated. So my personal mission (and favorite thing to do), is to create education that simplifies the process of taking great photos, and how to edit them to get the results you’ve always wanted.
Ok, I’m convinced. I just threw out all my negatives from my film days. I feel so much better!
One of the best things I have read about photography for absolutely ages. Between you Matt and Brian Matiash, you’re liberating me from years of clutter – I’m 63 and far too old to be wasting my time!!!
Matt,
Agree. My back-up system is more relaxed than yours and I’ve gotten past a couple drive crashes with no more than nuisance time spent putting things back together.
I’m old, post and share with friends, but know such photos are a dime a dozen.
Have taken to focus stacking macros of small bits of nature; amazing what one can see when they are up on screen. Fun and an education, but I do need to dump the initial RAW files.
And, should delete more, but some simply are a memory of a trip… A balancing act, and one more “round to it” to get to.
Like your idea of “Portfolio” folder of favorites.
Matt
I love this essay! This paragraph is the essential one for me: “After I edit a photo that I care about, I immediately save it as a full quality JPG. I have a “Portfolio” folder that I put all of those JPGs into. Right now, it’s got over 500 photos in it from over the years. That folder is backed up in every way possible. Google photos, Amazon Photos, Dropbox, my backup drives, and Blackblaze. If a huge catastrophe happened, I’d be able to get to that folder in some way. And that folder has the only photos I care about.”
I’ve been struggling with how to manage photos for the future and you are absolutely correct that it’s just my favorites that matter. Saving them in folders in LR isn’t a long term solution. I’m going to work on this (saving them as jpgs in a Favorites folder) in several locations.
Well said, Matt. I do backup my raw files but I agree it’s the ones I’ve finished post processing that give me the most pleasure. Will probably rethink my process and perhaps I too will have a portfolio folder. Thank you
I have two backup systems. One on an external hard drive and the other in Dropbox. For some unknown reason I deleted some RAW files on my computer so those are nowhere now, not on the EXHD or Dropbox. All I have left are my jpg files from those years. I wanted to go back and do some editing on a few and that is when I realized those RAW files were gone – completely. How hard is it going to be to do some editing on those jpg files? And do I have another choice?
Hi Suzanne – you can edit a JPG file pretty much the same as you would a raw file. Your editor doesn’t care what the file format it is.
Yes – BUT – photos also represent memories – even not so good ones. As one ages it’s nice to reminisce watching the old photos popping up on an electronic photoframe or screensaver. I also have a “Portfolio” storage drive, but I also get a lot of fun watching my screensaver!
I kind of agree with you, Matt. My family does not want to go through all my raw files looking for anything. What I do for my equivalent of your PORTFOLION folder of JPG files is use a web service (SmugMug in my case), to post all sorts of pictures, catalogued and tagged. My family (siblings, kids, cousins, in-laws, etc.) have accounts so they can log on and view and download the photos. Most do. When we have a family get-together, they get excited to see what gets posted online. It is safe there, and not open to anyone without an account, so it is also fairly private.
Also, when there is a family event that requires photos (weddings, age milestones, funerals, etc.), they all search through the tagged photos online to find relevant pictures quite easily.
So, when I die, they only need to decide what to do with the online account, but they won’t have any need (let alone any desire) to go through the 50+K raw files. They already have thousands of JPG files available.
I am 74 and do photography since I retired as a hobby. I see one more benefit to your approach.
When I die, if I had a JPEG file of the photos I really like, my children would have copies they could print and share with relatives and friends vs. just hitting delete if there are only raw files.
Hi Paul. Whether you backup your raw files religiously or not, everyone should have a folder of JPGs that their family knows about regardless of their age. I’m only 50 but accidents happen and my family would never know what to do with my photo library and my photos would go away forever. But at least with that folder, they’d have my favorites and be able to enjoy and do something with them. Not a happy thought, but if you care about your photos it’s an important one.
We all, IMO, needed this. Thanks, Matt.
Thanks Matt. This was a fun post. It had me chuckling all the way through. We do take ourselves a little too seriously a lot of the time, don’t we.
I’m of the same mind to all that. In fact I also keep one folder of photos that I MAY want to print some day (or not). I do mostly travel photography and videography. When I offload my stuff to my hard drive I enjoy processing the photos using Lightroom then move the photos / video clips to two high quality drives. From there the photos and videos are sorted and go into a short movie format complete with music, voiceovers and sound affects as appropriate. That is where I concentrate my backup efforts with both local and online storage. If I lost all else I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. Although I keep all my photos / video clips, once the finished movie is done and secure, I have no real use for the photos or video clips used to put the movie together. I have never gone back and looked at them or reprocessed any of them. On to the next adventure! I may have even gone a step too far for most enthusiasts towards simplifying in that I am becoming reluctant to even lug my cameras along on our trips and have started using the latest iPhone Pro rather than the cameras for most of my photography. The thing takes pretty good pictures (including raw files if there is something I may want to take a lot of time with in post processing) and decent video. All good enough where I really don’t see the difference in the final video that I put together. No pixel peeping! I step the final movie up to 2k or, occasionally, 4K and call it good. I share the movies with family and enjoy viewing them once in a while on a long winter night.
Wonderful!! I think many of us feel overwhelmed with the need to backup backup every single raw and every single edited file with complex systems. I love your system and am going to start simplifying and enjoy the moments instead of fretting over all the hours needed to keep track of the photos that no one will ever see or care about. We love looking at old photos that are worn and faded, but we still love them. Why? Bc of who is in them or where it was and the memories they bring. Have to remember that when photographing people and places. It’s for the memories.
Matt, I very much enjoyed this discussion…I have two storage hard dives where I have photography from 15 years ago….once in a rare instance I do go back to find something that I remember but cannot find in another file.
Thanks for your input…
Larry
I find that I keep RAW files for several reasons. I have my favorite’s rotate on my screen saver, which often triggers going back to the original:
1) I learn new techniques for post processing that I did no know when I originally took the photo. Might be a technique I learned from Matt.
2) New or enhanced tools are added so that many things are now possible that were not originally
3) My “artistic vision” has changed since I took it, and I would now approach the image in a different way.
I keep too many for sure, but I do enjoy going back to the original image and bringing something new out of it.
There have been many times when I’ve revisited my previous work and used a new technique (e.g. tricks I learned from the most excellent “No Light, No Problem” course) or used tools I didn’t have at the time (e.g. Topaz Photo AI).
Whether or not I *really* need the original RAW photos to do that, or whether I could just use my exported JPGs (made easy via Jeffrey Freidl’s “Folder Publisher” plug-in), I don’t know.
But I back up both RAW and exported JPGs to multiple locations – probably more out of a sense of obligation than any identifiable need. But I figure: disk space is cheap, so why not?
Why do you save your finished photo as a jpeg and not tiff? I realize tiff is a larger file, but it also seems less prone to various compression algorithms that affect jpeg.
Hi Jeff. What can’t I do with a high quality JPG? A Tiff defeats all of the simplicity of what I described and, to me at least, has no tangible benefits.
I have a friend who, when I shamefacedly admitted that I have 40000 + images saved said, “Jane, I have 40000 of lions”! Another friend whose thinking is similar to yours Matt, says,”What are our families going to do with them when we die?” So thank you Matt for this realistic approach, it has truly made me feel I can go on a ‘delete binge’……or many of them probably!
Touche to you Matt. Great thoughts and a good read. I agree wholeheartedly.
And you didn’t mention the “AI create as you need” phenomenon and its effect on “serious” photography! Sobering contemplations!
I don’t believe AI poses any more threat than digital photography did 30 years ago, or cell phones do today. New talents will emerge… The “serious” and great ones will adapt, survive and get better, and the mediocre ones will slowly get phased out. Natural evolution that happens in every business. This is a good thing and keeps the talented people at the top.
Don’t forget about printing photos—especially large prints. For Ansel Adams, the photographic process ended with a print for display. A very enjoyable aspect of photography for hobbyists also. The photos I consider my best are printed and kept in portfolio books, with copies framed for exhibit and sale.
Thanks, Matt. I agree with you completely even though I do sell a small number of photos online each year. When I first started selling, I thought I needed to backup every single raw file and every version of a photo, just in case a customer requested a tweak to one of my artistic interpretations (I often create multiple versions of a photo with different color casts, crops, artistic treatments, combinations of photos, etc.). Turns out customer requests happened so rarely over the 10 years I’ve been doing this, that it was not worth the time and effort to catalog and backup every change.
As for having fun, it is definitely fun photographing beautiful wildlife and landscapes (and my dog), but I also love using PS and LRc, along with other digital apps and techniques, to develop and add my own artistic touches to my photos. Your courses and tutorials have given me the tools that enable this hobby I love so much!
Hi Matt, You are so right, it’s all about the fun of it. I find my most interesting pics are taken at random! I try and make every single picture I take with composition in mind. Recently I went to a lake chatting with my friend who was dangling her legs on a small wall and suddenly these clouds came out of nowhere. I took a picture! Entered it in our County Fair thinking at best maybe 3rd prize. Well I was surprised to find out it won 1st place! I had a lot of fun taking it while having a day out with my friend and for me that was the fun part! And you are also right about the editing part, usually there isn’t much to edit in a good photo.
Cheers.
Mickey.
Matt, thanks for detailing your approach. A month ago, my external hard drive with all my raw photos died. I am waiting to see if they can be recovered to a new drive. I have the photos backed up on another external drive and with Blackblaze. I may have lost the Blackblaze backup due to their 28 days save rule. (I was traveling for most of those 28 days so no access to my desktop and drives). Lesson learned, pay the extra to have them keep it longer.
You have provided me with an approach to select the images I want to recover from the backup drive. Create a new portfolio folder and only restore those I have edited and want to keep, i.e., used in competitions, published in a book, etc.
As harsh as you might have sounded, you hit the nail on the head. Personally, I do photography for myself. I get great pleasure taking images at places my camera has taken me.
It is a feather in my cap if someone wants a print made from any of my images. My very special images are printed in some form on my walls.
My next process is to make a “portfolio” of my very best as you suggested.
Thank you again for your thoughts and direction.
Matt, I have to agree with you, on this subject. I too enjoy my time in the South African Wild Game Reserves,Parks & our Drakensberg, capturing special, moments. BUT, this is for me alone. Yes, there is the occassional, local Camera Club competition that I might enter.
I don’t want to revisit the past 15 years worth, Life is way too short. Besides Google photos gives insight into past mobile phone images, that give me an unexpected pleasure of a past memory to make me smile.
I loved this article. Not so much about the backing up of the raw files, I have thousands, and just too lazy to delete. But I appreciate your reminder that this should all be fun. I am not any more than a hobby and I actually talk myself out of taking photos many times because I don’t think I measure up to others in my photo club. Before I joined the club I was much more enthusiastic, excited, and free thinking about my hobby. Not saying I would quit the club because I enjoy being part of the community. Thanks for helping me try to change my attitude. I love you teaching style.
You’re comments here are some of the best and most realistic I have ever read about photography. People always ask me about my photography and my simple comment back to them is this. “It is my expensive hobby” There is always the thrill and challenge to capture that one shot. Even when I briefly think I have it, moments, days or weeks later that urge is still there. That is what keeps me shooting and accumulating files that I know I will never revisit more than a couple of times. Your comments really make me feel good about my approach to my hobby. A perk for me beyond great self satisfaction is when someone will see a picture and ask me for a print. Otherwise I shoot primarily for my own fulfillment and satisfaction knowing that I will very seldom get the shot that is the ultimate. And maybe I don’t want that because I always want to stay unfulfilled enough to keep striving for that ONE shot.
Thanks again for your comments. You have reassured me that I do have a great hobby.
Matt:
You are brutally honest, and that’s why I keep coming back! Keep it up.
Cheers, Bud
Matt, but why save as Jpeg and not tiff?
What if a client wants a large print, say for the lobby of a business. A Jpeg has lost valuable information needed for this enlargement, has it not?
Because a TIFF is no better than a JPG if the photo is already edited. Look at every print shop in the world… what format do they ask for? JPG? I guess it’s all down to comfort level. I’ve printed, enlarged, re-edited, done noise reduction, etc… with JPGs and I feel comfortable with it. And as I mentioned… I don’t have clients and (as I wrote in the article), nothing there was meant for people who make a living with photography.
Agree 100% on the way you think.
My workflow is however “slightly” different.
I do save my best photos as JPG, as you do. In safest possible way in the cloud.
I also save my Raw files, but only temporary (say a month)!!
Then I delete them!
Reason for this is that I sometimes rethink my editing (in a learning curve) when I discuss my photos with friends and in photo groups. I then like to redo/modify my editing I LR.
After a month this is unlikely to happen. (When I delete the Raw files in LR (cloud version) they are also in the waste basket for another 60 days)
I am totally happy and confident with this workflow.
That’s it! I do agree 100% about everything. I don’t care either.
Thanks for your honesty, Matt. This in what I have seen in you from the time I started following you. I have learned so much from you through your courses, workshops and personal contact with you. You are a great instructor who has taught me to have fun with my hobby and to enjoy the product no matter what others do or think. I have looked at too many forums with people who are so tied up with their gear and “one-up-manship” that it is tiring read their blather. Thanks for being there for us. You are the best in my eyes plus you were also a Jersey guy. Hi to the family. Neal
Just scanned through the comments and noticed a number of mature followers in their 70’s as I am, and we all seem to be largely in agreement with your post. Just be grateful we don’t have to take a trip to the dump to off load all these thousands of raw masterpieces.
“My photography is not worth anything to anyone besides me”. The absolute truth for me, and I guess, most people
Amen!
Thank you for this. I spend way too much time with DAM. For 15 yrs., I have belonged to a photo group called Aminus All of the images that I post there get put into my portfolio. The upsizing software that is available today such as, Gigapixel AI, is excellent. My favorite photo of mine became destroyed in a computer crash several years ago. When I went to my backup HD, somehow it was missing. So I dragged the portfolio file into LR, and then upsized it in Gigapixel. After printing it on 13 x 19 in. paper. I then asked a fellow photographer who has a very critical eye, if he saw any artifacts or other issues with the print. He confirmed what a great job the software had done. (I have stopped worrying about losing precious family photos.)
Great comments, thank you!
Matt – I ALWAYS enjoy reading your posts because you are a consistent, humble, down to earth, realist who is also damn good at what you do best, which is teach.
Interesting thought process. I can see your point and there are excellent comparisons in my own situation. At some point you have to be satisfied that you have taken enough precautions (Backups) and move on. If you don’t, and can’t be happy, you will spend a lot of time and money on backup solutions that could be spent making the best images you can.
Knowing when to stop is the key, in editing and in backup systems.
I go under the philosophy of “When in doubt throw it out”. I do a lot of culling and deleting those photos that I don’t want. I do a lot of continuous shooting and when I get say 5 to 10 of the same, I tend to cut it down to a more workable number. Don’t get me wrong I do backup but only after I get to a manageable number.
Matt, my thinking is just the opposite of yours. The beauty of Lightroom is that you can save the original raw file and have all the processing stored in the Lightroom catalog. To get a jpg, you simply export it. My clients want jpg’s but I never store them because I can easily export a jpg when I need one. I can also edit the file if I want to or if I learn a new technique, masking for example. I know that you know this. I can’t believe that your thinking is so opposite.
I’m on your side Jeff. I save, backup, and protect the raw files, then export a JPEG when needed. More often than not, I find myself going back to the raw files to implement a new editing process, especially with the ongoing advancement in the tools and techniques these days.
Hi Mike. Just for the record… I never said I don’t “save, backup and protect” my raw files. I just happen to care less about them than you. Of all the comments no one has given me a good reason that I’d ever need them. But I think the 4 drives sitting on my desk and a cloud backup signify that they are saved and protected right?
In the end I have my final and favorite images saved in a simple easy way that me or my family can always get to with no other programs, services and software needed. I just don’t care as much about the raw photos that got me there as you do.
Well spoken
THIS ?? But the perceived value of wonderful photography is the lowest it’s ever been in our lives.
I started as a nurse for 18 years. Then a professional family photographer for 30 years. Now I’m backing to nursing with photography on the side.
You make a lot of great points. I have done thousands of shoots and I have boxes of negatives and now boxes of hard drives and so far only 3 clients have wanted something from the past. It is OVERWHELMING!!!!
haha says the guy that doesn’t calibrate his monitor for printing.
I have yet to see a reason why. Give me a good reason and I’ll start.
Thousands of prints later, no one has ever said “Ya know… the color doesn’t look right” 🙂
Perfect. This is a problem I am working on. I agree that no one else is going to look at my photos (let alone know how to find them !) after I pass on.
Shooting the grandgirls as they grew up was great, but now they’re on to separate lives and I don’t see them much, so it was a transitory joy.
My big problem now is that I’ve mucked up my LR catalogues which can’t find 20 +% of the originals, which prohibits me from melding the catalogues together. I do have a 12 Tb Raid (thought that would be semi-safe) and other discs. But, like garages and attics, they just fill up because one has the space. So, Like Jeff’s ‘ruthless editor’, my motto is now, ‘cull like you’re already dead.’ (a little harsh maybe)
I enjoyed your video on Bridge. Maybe I’ll just go back to my original files; strip them down with bridge, and start over on LR Classic.
You’re a hoot! Photography, I’ve found, is a lot LIKE golf. Each of us is better than someone else on the golf course, and not as good as other golfers. And just as in golf, each of us is better than other photographers and no where as good as others. And we’ve seen your excellent work, Matt, so don’t try to blow that “I’m not very good” crap off on us. I suspect 95% or more of us reading your posts would LOVE to be as good as you, both in TAKING photos, and certainly as good at PROCESSING them as are you. But we understand what you’re trying to say….
Great analogy Bob. I know scratch golfers who are never happy with their game.
As for photography, I am good and bordering on great sometimes. But in the photography world, the photos that win contest, get purchased, and are extraordinary, I’m nowhere near that. And it’s a lot like my golf game. In photography, I’m just not willing to do what it takes to get those photos. I’d rather sit with a nice drink in the evening than go shoot at sunset. I’d rather stay home, than go hike and camp out in remote areas to get truly unique wildlife or landscapes.
With golf, I simply don’t have the capacity to become really good. I have a bit of an elbow issue that’ll always hold me back from practicing too much. I have about 100 swings in me before my elbow blows up, so I don’t even take many practice swings when I play and certainly don’t hit the range for the hours it would take. I’ll be happy shooting anywhere in the 80’s / low 90’s and maybe one day break into the 70’s. But to get myself much lower just isn’t in the cards for me and I’m fine with that. I enjoy it. Even on a bad day, I still enjoy playing.
Thanks!
Amen!
Thanks Matt. I’ve been thinking as much for a while now, and it took hearing it from you to put it all into perspective. I’ll enjoy going through my old images but knowing what a hoarder I am, I bet I don’t delete half as much as I should.
Interesting and much truth in the words above. I’ve been following your back up advice from a few years ago and am very comfortable with it. I stink at getting rid of marginal files I’ll probably never use, but space is relatively cheap. So who cares.
I already know I’m not a pro photographer and don’t care. I enjoy what I do mostly for me, a bit of social media posting and to bomb the kids with photos.
What I most got from this is that Matt saves his best photos as JPG’s somewhere safe. I’ll take it farther and say that I need to put this somewhere where the kids and wife can have access once I pass on. Not sure where or how yet but that and the box of prints I make will be like the old photo albums form my parents and grand-parents. This is huge for me.
So a big thanks Matt for pointing me in another good direction.
Hi Matt just got back on my computer and your
article on lost all my raw file when you save your jpegs are they in adobe or rgb
What you say makes immense sense to me and others who have commented. The hard part for me is deciding which photos to deposit in your “Portfolio” folder.
If I have any degree of liking the photo I put it in there. There are many in there that I’ll never share or post because they’re not good enough. But I like ‘em so I put them in there.
I am pretty sure that when I’m gone my daughter may start looking through all the photos on my computer. She will soon tire of that and and will either quit looking and never return for another look or will became a “ruthless editor.” Most likely the first option. I’ve recently gone through photos my parents and grandparents had in albums. It looks like what really mattered were photos of parents and their kids, then those kids and their kids, and on down by generation — with maybe a few photos to help with where they were when those photos were taken. Quality didn’t seem to matter as much as the subject. Back in the days of film photos were taken, film was processed, photos were printed, someone looked at the results, the packet of photos was put away and not looked again until a couple of generations down the line.
You can still print your images and with the new pigment inks, they will last many generations after we are gone. That is what I’m doing with my two young grandchildren’s pictures. My daughter and son-in-law laugh at me, but someday they will thank me. Also, Matt’s idea of having his best pics on .jpg is great because no one will know what do with our RAWs after we are gone!
I love your perspective here. But there are more important subjects to deal with: how’s your golf game? I was tickled to hear you’d taken up the sport but haven’t seen any comments or pics from golfing
Hey Steve. I took it back up about 2 years ago when my youngest went to college. I’ve gotten myself down to around a 13-14 Index so I’m happy enough (played 9 holes with my kids today and shot a 38 so I’m a really happy camper today). I don’t take photos of it so you’ll probably never see that unless I decide to start bringing a camera. But I barely even bring my phone when I play 🙂 Thanks!
Jeffdag said “be a ruthless editor.” Indeed! One of my goals since taking your composition course and Blake’s courses is to become a ruthless editor while at the same time creating a portfolio such as yours, where saving it becomes the most important thing, not thousands of other photos that will never see the exposure…er…light of day!
As an amateur photographer who discovered the benefits of RAW editing in the 90’s, I have been taking digital photos almost exclusively in Raw since then. My Raw and edited JPG pictures are saved and used on an external hard drive (4TB), which is backed up to another 4TB hard drive. Sometimes, I go back to a picture I liked or my wife liked and use the RAW file with the latest versions of Lightroom, Photoshop, DxO Pure Raw 3 and Topaz AI to “improve” what I had edited. At 74, I am still learning new tricks with these editing programs and love the editing process as a hobby — I’m totally retired! I realize most of the changes are subtle and you have to be pixel peeping to see the improved difference, but I’m happy to do this. The two external hard drives were less than $250; so insignificant. But it gives me happiness to do so.
I’m 74 next month too. What will your heirs do with all of these RAW files? Better get your favorites into .jpgs like Matt is doing. Also print as many as you can. Get a pigment printer and your pics will last for generations.
I agree with you. Ninety percent of the my favorite photos are formatted to display on my 65 inch televisions – as jpg files. The other ten percent are turned into a print for the house or given as a gift.
Hi Matt, wow what an interesting article you have written today. You have a healthy way of thinking about your photography and what it means to you, and it works for you! I commend the thoughts that you shared with us, and I’m thinking I should be a little more serious about my photography. Keep up the good work, do what you have to do, and have fun!
A realistic, refreshing, and honest approach. Well said.
Thank you! I have thousands of photos backed up — as JPGs of final edits! My thought process was basically the same: Will I ever go back and edit these again? I doubt it. If I really ever do lose my RAW files, will I regret it? Probably not. This is a hobby for me. Even if I lost all my RAW files and JPGs and JPG backups… I’ll just go take new photos. That’s the fun part for me!
As a somewhat ruthless culler (is there such a word?) of my own photos, I have developed a workflow for the few I keep that lets me effortlessly back up my raw and edited photos simultaneously. I do all my editing in Lightroom Classic, with a few ventures into Photoshop now and then. Lightroom’s new ai noise reduction allows me to get a final .dng from which I can, if I like, export a .jpg. With a single drag and drop, I can upload those few daily raw photos to Smugmug–even the Tiffs that Photoshop drops back into Lightroom. There they are for sale (rarely sold, natch) and for posterity (my kids couldn’t care less). However, it makes me happy to view them on my phone and see the word RAW on each one–safe and sound with very little effort. Side note: these files are also backed up to several hard drives–similar to your setup.
I totally agree with you. Most of my photos are only interesting to me. I do back up my raw files but rarely ever go back to them. My finished jpgs are what I cherish the most. I did have a hard drive failure and lost most of my raw files and some jpgs. I did however find most of them in other places I had saved them. I need to take your advice and have jpg “portfolio backed up instead of all those raw files. Thank you for your simplicity and learning to enjoy the art of photography itself and not all the fluff surrounding it.
With you on much of what you say you are doing. The one exception is that I have gone back to images processed in earlier versions of Lightroom and reprocessed them in a newer version to update their look. I find a number of my earlier digital images have a dated look now, and do not have the same exquisite results that we can now achieve. I save each of my processed images in tiff to keep the 16 bit resolution. That is my archival keep system, along with the jpg versions. I keep the full palette of possibilities without needing to convert from raw. And yes, I got better results than working with the lower resolution jpg.
It all depends on how those raw photos are used. I “Re-World” images, creating, surrealistic or existential questions. The work is put together using extreme editing and or compositing with “Photoshop”. Pieces of my raw library become subjects or inspirations for continuing projects. I never know which image will be used until I begin working on it. I save everything that has some supposed use. “Time Machine hard drives” Web. cameragenic.com
Interesting take on backing up photo files. I use a similar process. But, where I differ is that I save my final edit as a TIF. This allows me to save my layers, etc. Also, a TIF is more stable than a Jpeg. Yes, TIF files take up a lot of space, but with the cost of low cost of storage, why not.
Do you see any advantage for saving as a PNG?
Hi. PNG is a web designer format for graphics that need transparency. Definitely not for photos.
He may have meant .dng.
Well said.
However, I do think, for some unknown reason, we all hoard photographs like family heirlooms.
Just in case.. maybe one day
Amen and amen, Matt! I’m 76 years old and have no intention of becoming a “great photographer.” The joy of being out in nature and then back in my office and finding one or two excellent shots among the hundred or so I’ve shot is sufficient. I am my photography’s most important audience. If some other people in my family or on Facebook/Instagram like them, so much the better. That’s just icing on the cake of pleasure I derive from liking/critiquing my own work and always striving to improve my skills.
Hi Matt,
Some years ago, I was a member of my local camera club. We had a great photographer who won many competitions and awards and took on the task of helping(teaching, encouraging) beginners. Sadly, his daughter died suddenly. He then put all the awards and photographs in perspective by telling us the only photos that mattered were those of his daughter and family.
I agree with every word you say. We enjoy taking, looking at and sharing out photographs, but they are not the Mona Lisa. Yes, keep safe those that are important to you personally. In my case, I took on the task of recording the photographic progress of my 11 grandchildren from the day they were born up to about 8 or even now at every chance I get. Those photographs are precious.
Great thoughts Michael. Enjoy those grandchildren. I’ll be headed your way in a few weeks. Will message you soon!
Same here Michael, I’m a late bloomer grandfather at 74 with two toddler grandsons. Photographing their growth is a lot of fun despite my daughter’s insistence that iPhone pictures without fill flash are better! Printing with my Epson P900 has become an obsession since I know they will turn up years later in my acid free boxes rather than my RAW images.
I am really making an effort to not save so many images. To be a ruthless editor. It’s a challenge to bring myself to that point. In the days of film, I would go out and shoot 10 rolls of film and maybe come back with three or four good images. Nowadays you could shoot almost anything and fix it in the editing. At least that’s what’s in my head. You’re 100% spot on, no matter how much technology, editing you can never make an OK photo great. It starts in the camera. And I have been making progress in this area. Trying to get back to that film mentality.
I also spent way too much time on tech, YouTube videos on how to shoot etc. etc. I’m not challenging myself to just go out and shoot. I think you’re absolutely right. Harsh reality here. There’s a great deal of truth in your article.
Love that term Jeff… “Ruthless editor”. I may borrow it in the future 🙂
All I can say is amen. I agree with every word.
Thank you for your comments. Agree, agree, agree. I know when I’m gone my son won’t care about my flower, animal, landscape, or any other “hobby” photo I’ve taken. He’ll care about the photos of family and friends. I care about the photos because I remember taking them, learning new techniques, and seeing the magic of post editing. Those are my memories and my experience that can’t be shared. I backup my raw files. If I lost my edited files, so be it—I’d re-edit (I’m at the learning curve where I might do a better job the second time). Complicating something enjoyable turns it into a chore.
Couldn’t agree more. Great post Matt.
Basically I agree. Who will go through and of your old photos to figure what to keep?
We have a storage unit in Vermont that was flooded. Basically nearly all prints are in the landfill. You some were very old. Who were they, who really cared? They were in storage, basically our raws.
Some are damaged the I will choose to scan and recover. Most really don’t matter but there is a emotional attachment.
Sad, it is the prints that should be preserved. Keep them out of storage and out of the heat. Later generations will see the prints, not the RAW or any other digital image.
Interesting perspectives on prints vs digital. I think it’s the digital images that have a chance of being seen by younger family members.
I’m in my middle 70s and have lugged around that big box of old family photos every time I’ve moved. A few years back I scanned all the ones that were important to me, including scanning the backs of the ones that had notes about names, dates, and places. These photos went back to pre-1900. I included peoples names in the filenames, too. So when I moved again this past March and came across that big box of prints again, I threw them all out.
I really can’t see my 50-something son or others who go through my effects after I am gone, caring about an old box of photos and albums of people they never met. Almost everyone my age or younger now keeps their photos in digital format and rarely (if ever) prints them. Because of that, Matt’s concept of a portfolio containing jpgs of the photos most important to him makes sense to me. I have two “portfolios.” One of my photography hobby favorites and one of family heirloom photos. My guess is that when I’m gone, the family photos portfolio may be saved by someone, but the hobby portfolio probably won’t.
Well, gotta say I agree with you Matt! Yeah, I back up my RAW files, but since I went digital, can’t say I have ever gone back and re-edited them. To date I cannot say all the new technological advances could salvage any of my photos with the exception of some of my early noisy ones. Still, not going to go back through 15+ years of photos to find that “one” in a million!
Great read, Matt! Thanks!
Interesting. My raw files get backed up to Amazon the moment they hit my hard drive. Even before culling. My Catalog has less than 50,000 photos but I have over 600,000 images on Amazon.
I keep thinking that I should do them a favor by deleting them all and then backing up again. But that is unlikely to ever happen.
Every version of an edited file is backed up too.
What I don’t don’t back up is my jpg files. I never remember where I put them so it is easier to go back to my catalog and export again. If I found my drive filling up I would just delete thousands of jpg files,I suppose.