This question has come up a lot over time. It can get confusing when working on a raw photo to know that the photo isn’t really a raw photo anymore. When you do certain adjustments to an image, it’s important to know when you leave that raw space and will need to make a copy. So in this video we’ll try to help you understand when this happens. Enjoy!
I love teaching and photography... In that order. I feel that enjoying photography, and photo editing can get WAY too complicated. So my personal mission (and favorite thing to do), is to create education that simplifies the process of taking great photos, and how to edit them to get the results you’ve always wanted.
Matt, this is as clear as mud to me. I get that an image from the camera into ACR is the RAW image. Where you lose me is when it goes into PS it ceases to be a RAW image. I would think I am working on a copy of the RAW image until such time as I save it as something else (PSD, PSB, TIFF etc.)
Is a DNG a copy of the RAW image? It took me some time to figure out how to get from RAW to DNG as it is not a straight forward method of saving the image. Its buried in the side bar.
Hi. I’m not sure how else to describe it. I can’t give you the technical (behind the scenes) reasons why, but what I explained is what happens. When you open in to the main PS interface it’s no longer raw and you aren’t editing in the raw space. Whether you actually save the image doesn’t matter… you are in the PS interface, and not the raw editor, so you are indeed working on a rendered copy of the photo (most likely to TIFF, but your preferences will show you the details of what you have it set to).
DNG or Raw doesn’t make a difference – the same applies but there’s no reason you should be converting your photo to DNG.
In practice does any this matter if you don’t do large exposure or color changes to it in PS? Nope… not one bit. You’ll never know the difference. But you will then have a copy that isn’t raw. Thanks.
Fascinating video, and its got me thinking.If I want to work on a stack of images with varying exposures, in Photoshop, (as in Harold Davis for Transparency), should these images be converted to smart objects – or else edited in Lightroom before I send them to Photoshop? Thank you
Hi. I don’t know. If you have a reason to convert them to smart objects then do so, but I can’t think of one. Maybe experiment with both ways and see which you prefer. Thanks.
Thanks. And what about when I send RAW files from Lightroom Classic to Helicon Focus Lite. Am I losing data ?
Hi. Helicon is a focus stacking app, so you wouldn’t edit the photos there. I’m not sure it matters at that point – but you could ask them as it’s not software I use. Thanks.
I tried not to jump on this band wagon but here I am.
If you simply import, view, or copy a RAW file between editors without making any edits or saving a processed version, the file remains a RAW file. The “RAW” status depends on the original data and whether it has been altered or converted, not on which software opened it. ( several searches on Adobe will confirm)
If you so much as tweak any part of the photo and send it to somewhere else of course it is no longer a Raw file. Matt I respect your work and you sharing your knowledge but there are numerous topics from Adobe that dispute Raw files are no longer Raw when transferred to another editor. If this is the case then why the heck would you bother with shooting RAW when most people can’t tell the difference between a Jpeg processed file or a RAW processed file. This topic will find it’s place in the YouTube verse among the hundreds that tell you change this setting, buy this lens, stop using this method, Blah, Blah, Blah.
Hi Mitchell. I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying – if you’re agreeing or saying something is wrong? But what I showed in this video is 100% true, and indisputable. If you disagree then just try what I showed and you’ll be able to see. Thanks.
Hi Matt. I do and did watch this video more than once. My intent was not to insinuate you were wrong and what you said was not true. I work between DXO Labs and Lightroom. My .CR2 files remain Raw “unless” in the transfer dialog box I choose a different format other than original file format without processing. Thanks for all you do in the Photography/ Post processing community.
Thank you for your work and willingness to share your time with others.
Wow, what a timely video! Just this week I started in Lightroom and then edited in Photoshop using Camera Raw filter, and I couldn’t find the Crop tool. Now I know why! Thanks!!
Thank you, Matt., I know that I am not stupid, so why are my files changing? I shoot only in Raw and behind the scenes my files were changing. Now I know and must change my workflow to account for this.
I use Bridge to view my files, not Lightroom, and export to PS via Camera Raw from Bridge. Is it still a RAW photo until I open it PS.
Hi Steve. No matter what, no matter where you start and what your workflow is… if you open a photo, past camera raw and in to Photoshop it is no longer raw. As I said in the video, the moment you see that Photoshop interface (toolbar on the left, etc…), its not raw.
Thanks, Matt, this video about Camera Raw is extremely useful! My workflow is to browse images in Adobe Bridge, and to open raw images (Nikon NEF) into ACR by clicking the “iris leaf” icon on the tool bar in Adobe Bridge. Presumably the image that opens into ACR is a “raw-raw” image. Of course if I then click Open in ACR it takes me to Photoshop and the image is no longer “raw-raw.” Do I understand that correctly? Many thanks!
Yep.
That’s fantastic, Matt!
This is very helpful and important information that I didn’t know! You’re going to help a lot of people with this.
Thank you so much!
That’s quite enlightening Matt. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
So, if an image is imported (brought into lightroom) and not edited at all, and then sent to Photoshop, let’s say to remove an object or replace a sky, for example, does that mean that the image that was brought into Photoshop is no longer a raw image?
Hi. That’s correct. The moment in leaves Lightroom it will not be raw and you will be forced to save a copy. You’d want to do what you’re referring to after you adjusted the photo in Lightroom.
Matt, I learn so much from your free videos as well as the ones I purchase. I can’t thank you enough. I just want you to know you are very appreciated.
Is there a reason to use the Camera Raw Filter since there seem to be so many limits? Thanks Matt!
There can be. It’s not always a limitation what I showed. I was simply trying to help people understand that it isn’t raw. If you want to do any subtle adjustments the filter can be helpful. Or if you’re coming from LR, you can just save the photo and do it back there. Same result, different workflow.
Thank you, You are very knowledgeable… damn. quick question, If i move a photo from LR to PS to add a sky and signature to the photo does it stay a raw file.??
Hi William. The moment you moved in to Photoshop, and save the image, it is no longer raw. Thanks!
Explains a lot. Thanks again, Matt.
As usual – great video. Speaking of RAW files… I just bought a new Canon R6iii, which has the option of “regular” RAW and “compressed” RAW. Is there any difference as to how LR, LRC and PS/Camera Raw will work with these files. I’ve researched the topic and it appears there is very little practical difference in image quality. Do you agree or have any other thoughts that would be helpful. Thanks!
Hi Rich. I don’t know as I don’t have the camera or it’s raw files. Best you can do is try it and see if you can find a difference. Thanks.
Very, very helpful, Matt. I have been working with Lightroom/Photoshop for awhile now and have never fully understood the basic information you shared here. Thanks for some very relevant information.
Thank you for that important information!
This means that if I go into PS early in my LRC workflow to remove an object (that might not be removed as efficiently in LRC), I am loosing a lot of the RAW info, correct? So I better use the REMOVE function in PS after I am done with my more or less complete workflow in LRC?
Very informative video – as usual!!
Nice presentation, as usual.
I totally did not know this. I rarely use Photoshop. but still…good to be aware. Thanks!
I am so glad to learn this! Thank you for explaining what is and isn’t raw so well! It’s important to know that when I go from LRC into PS that it is no longer a true raw file. I often like using smart objects when I go into PS and am happy to know that they do work on raw files!
While the Smart Object technically is a raw file, when you’re in Photoshop you must save the image. After that it will no longer be raw.
what working space are you using in photoshop? srgb 8 bit? That could account for the difference.
16 bit RGB has more resolution / dynamic range than the original data coming out of the camera, so if photoshop was set to 16 then it was capable of displaying everything from the camera, and the raw file couldn’t (shouldn’t?) have more data than the photoshop tif file or internal working space representation.
You saw my settings in the video. I believe it was 16bit and no matter how you shake it the image in Photoshop will not have as much tonal information as the raw photo.
Thank you! Your explanations are always so clear and very useful.
Great explanation – thank you! I’m curious why you don’t use smart objects if that is the only way to be able to edit a true raw file into Photoshop from LrC?
Because when I get to Photoshop I don’t do anything related to tone, color or contrast. So I would never need the clunkiness that a smart object presents. If I’m in PS, it’s because I’m removing a distraction or using a layer. The Smart Obj offers no help with what most photographers would do in PS.
Thanks, Very clear explanation.
Excellent explanation, as it demonstrates that you lose detail when going from LRC to PS, UNLESS you pass the file as a smart object. It means that in general, the default (more flexible) process for some people would be to work that way to have the choice.
It would also be useful to demonstrate or comment on what happens (and doesn’t) if you open a plugin like Topaz from either LR or PS after the latter has the raw file from LR.
Thanks for doing this….
Hi Steve. You do lose detail, but Smart Objects are irrelevant for most people because you’re not doing anything with tone, color or contrast in Photoshop. You’re typically adding a layer of some sort, in which case a smart object is more of a hinderance than helping in any way. For the second question regarding your workflow, Please watch the end of the video. I talked about those other situations.
Thanks! this explains so much that I was confused with. now I need the “raw vs not” on a cheat sheet with a “raw first” workflow.
Why don’t you get a pop up that gives you the choices like “Edit with LR adjustments” when you open in Ps from LR?
Hi Lisa. Because it’s raw photo you won’t get an option to work on the original or make a copy. A copy must be made. I covered this at 2:00 or so in the video. Thanks.
It is a shame the import file extension is not changed to .tiff instead of keeping the original raw file extension.
Hi Ron. It will once you save the image.